What if 9/11 was done by far-right domestic terrorists?


Big, obvious building full of lizard people ;) would be the primary target




If you can see it from the air - the hijackers of Flight 77 couldn't spot it from the air while spiraling down from 7000 feet, so I doubt Chad and Brad Millitiaman from Missouri would have any more luck.

They call New York City "Jew York City" and believe it's the central control for the Jewish-ruled NWO (just like al-Qaeda really), so they could fly a plane into any skyscraper they wanted to and still believe they were striking a blow against the ZOG or however else Jews are ruling the world.
 
let me see
If 9/11 was done by American Extrem Right like Nazi and white nationalists or KKK

Today they would not running with tiki torches true US cities, They would hide in sewage system, wetting there pants in constant fear to be find by Patriotic US citizen and get lynched...
And next Patriotic US citizen with Guns. There also FBI, National Guards and Armed Forces of USA hunting for Them.
with "operation Montana Freedom" against the far-right patriot movement, while Guantanamo prison fill up with Far Right Extremist

But there will also foreign intervention against far-right were Germany and Austria will be in focus of USA (and others like Hungary)
The German Government deal with Neo-nazi rather half-hearted, with USA "breathing down there neck" that could change fast toward a hard "zero tolerance"
to prevent that USA send in troops to deal with the situation.
Anyhow there will be CIA operation in Europa to deal with far-right high rang key figure like Jean Marie Le Pen or Bert Eriksson
and with Operation i mean those people ending up totally dead...
 
Look, the point isn't to look at plausability of it (otherwise, the entire point of alternate history may as well be questioned), but examining what would be the after-effects and rammifications and the like? How would this affect the Bush adminsitration for starts?
Unless it's actual ASB, plausibility is quite important. What caused an event has direct effect on its ramifications.
 
let me see
If 9/11 was done by American Extrem Right like Nazi and white nationalists or KKK

Today they would not running with tiki torches true US cities, They would hide in sewage system, wetting there pants in constant fear to be find by Patriotic US citizen and get lynched...
And next Patriotic US citizen with Guns. There also FBI, National Guards and Armed Forces of USA hunting for Them.
with "operation Montana Freedom" against the far-right patriot movement, while Guantanamo prison fill up with Far Right Extremist

But there will also foreign intervention against far-right were Germany and Austria will be in focus of USA (and others like Hungary)
The German Government deal with Neo-nazi rather half-hearted, with USA "breathing down there neck" that could change fast toward a hard "zero tolerance"
to prevent that USA send in troops to deal with the situation.
Anyhow there will be CIA operation in Europa to deal with far-right high rang key figure like Jean Marie Le Pen or Bert Eriksson
and with Operation i mean those people ending up totally dead...

This is pretty ridiculous post. The United States threatening to send troops to Europe (but they're already there?) to arrest/kill neo-Nazis? The CIA killing Jean Marie Le Pen? Sure, it would take a global network of white supremacists to pull off a 9/11 style attack (if I have to suspend my belief to imagine white supremacists killing 3,000 people in an alt-9/11, I definitely have to suspend my belief for an idea like that), but this is still ridiculous. Some random neo-Nazi skinhead in Germany would have about as much to do with these terrorists as some random Salafist preacher in Iraq did with al-Qaeda.

Really, this is like saying it would be a likely event the United States invades Europe (or uses the already there troops) to go smoke out terrorist sympathisers and then have the CIA "deal with" noted European Islamists like Anjem Choudary.

And since these are American citizens, they wouldn't go to Guantanamo or some black site, they'd go to federal prison. And only the ringleaders would get to go to ADX Florence, the rest would go to other federal prisons and probably be slapped with something like the "material support to terrorists" charge. Their organisation would rapidly fragment, since unlike Islamist terrorists, most wouldn't be able to flee to foreign countries and thus they'd all cease activity or serve some time in the pen.

And would it really be that hard for the KKK (at least some Klan group) to say "we condemn this attack on America which is anti-Christian"? There are Klan groups which are pro-Israel, you know, and I don't see how a white supremacist organisation wouldn't frame their attack as an anti-Semitic terrorist attack.
 
Look, the point isn't to look at plausability of it (otherwise, the entire point of alternate history may as well be questioned), but examining what would be the after-effects and rammifications and the like? How would this affect the Bush adminsitration for starts?

If your point is NOT plausibility, you've posted in the wrong forum. You need ASB. Ask the mods to move it.


Big, obvious building full of lizard people ;) would be the primary target



If you can see it from the air - the hijackers of Flight 77 couldn't spot it from the air while spiraling down from 7000 feet, so I doubt Chad and Brad Millitiaman from Missouri would have any more luck.

Maybe Daisy Militiaman is with them and thought to bring a map? :winkytongue:
 
Plane hijackings and suicide attacks aren't generally in the repertoire of far right domestic terror groups. Therefore you are likely looking at something similar to the 1993 attempt with low casualties, and at worst, something like Oklahoma City. It would probably not have a ton of impact, as a result, and would probably just do more to highten the gulf between the Libertarian/Paleocon fringe of the American Right and the Conservative movement, which was already deep and widening at the time.
 
This is pretty ridiculous post.
Yes i forgot to put "Waring ironic content"

The United States threatening to send troops to Europe (but they're already there?) to arrest/kill neo-Nazis? The CIA killing Jean Marie Le Pen? Sure, it would take a global network of white supremacists to pull off a 9/11 style attack (if I have to suspend my belief to imagine white supremacists killing 3,000 people in an alt-9/11, I definitely have to suspend my belief for an idea like that), but this is still ridiculous. Some random neo-Nazi skinhead in Germany would have about as much to do with these terrorists as some random Salafist preacher in Iraq did with al-Qaeda.

yes, there US Troops in Europe but there number are in descent since Cold War is over.
so there are Neo Nazi and Far right networks and Organizations but there not so efficient organized als Islamic Terrorist like al-Qaeda & Co (in fact the Neo-nazi are rather Amateurish bunch of Idiots )
But since National Socialist origin from Austria and Germany, those nation can get in Focus of US politic after Right Wing 9/11
like you say metalinvader665, it need highly organized Terrorist network to pull a Right Wing 9/11, in that case the CIA would goes after Key figures of this Network who are in foreign countries, and arrest or killing then ( just like with some al-Qaeda members.)
That there happen "assessment error" is not new for CIA, ok Jean Marie Le Pen is over kill, but for Bert Eriksson certain.

Really, this is like saying it would be a likely event the United States invades Europe (or uses the already there troops) to go smoke out terrorist sympathisers and then have the CIA "deal with" noted European Islamists like Anjem Choudary.
Analog to Right Wing 9/11: USA menaces it's NATO member and other European countries with high Neo-Nazis activity.
Either local Government take care of there problem with Right wings or US troops / Drones deal with them.

The German government was in very lax again Neo Nazi who become a Problem, while Far-right enter the German Parlament in last election.

And since these are American citizens, they wouldn't go to Guantanamo or some black site, they'd go to federal prison. And only the ringleaders would get to go to ADX Florence, the rest would go to other federal prisons and probably be slapped with something like the "material support to terrorists" charge. Their organisation would rapidly fragment, since unlike Islamist terrorists, most wouldn't be able to flee to foreign countries and thus they'd all cease activity or serve some time in the pen.
And would it really be that hard for the KKK (at least some Klan group) to say "we condemn this attack on America which is anti-Christian"? There are Klan groups which are pro-Israel, you know, and I don't see how a white supremacist organisation wouldn't frame their attack as an anti-Semitic terrorist attack.

Thanks clarified that point. so Guantanamo will take foreign right wings and nazis
 
D.C.'s landmarks are pretty obvious all you really need is to line up with the Mall and it's monuments you'll have a straight path to your choice of two major targets.

In any case the probability of a right wing terrorist group using suicide attacks in the U.S. is very low they are far more likely to favor the old standby of vehicular bombs parked near politically significant targets. Right wing extremists in the U.S. don't have the religious fanaticism of jihadis that exalts as martyrs those who commit mass murder via suicidal attack.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
D.C.'s landmarks are pretty obvious all you really need is to line up with the Mall and it's monuments you'll have a straight path to your choice of two major targets.

Have you flown over the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Area Flight Restricted Zone?

I haven't

So how do you know?
 
On September 11th, 2001, I was pretty certain it was American right wing terrorists, on the grounds that the largest terrorist attack in the US to date had been done by American right-wing terrorists.
 
Have you flown over the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Area Flight Restricted Zone?

I haven't

So how do you know?

I worked in downtown D.C. for quite a few years at the World Bank. The White house is well within walking distance only a few blocks away. So I'm pretty familiar with downtown D.C.

Also I've flown out of Washington's Ronald Reagan National airport more than once. Takeoff and landing is usually over the Potomac river and many of the monuments and landmarks are clearly visible and recognisable. l've been able to recognize many of the buildings and monuments on the flights I had window seat.

Take the time to go on Google Earth and look at satellite imagery the landmarks are quite recognisable. Find Ronald Reagan National airport it's main runway points directly at the White House and the Washington monument. The current version of imagery you can see that the Washington monument's shadow points directly at the White House. If you scroll to the right from the Washington monument you'll find the National mall which leads you directly to Capitol hill and the Capitol itself.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
Also I've flown out of Washington's Ronald Reagan National airport more than once. Takeoff and landing is usually over the Potomac river and many of the monuments and landmarks are clearly visible and recognisable. l've been able to recognize many of the buildings and monuments on the flights I had window seat.

So why did the 9/11 hijackers not attack it? When a drunk man easily found it from the air on September 12, 1994, and crashed his aeroplane into it?

Because there was a bigger, easier to identify, more iconic target in Arlington, VA.
 
You're not thinking things through logically and you are falling into the trap of underestimating the 9/11 hijackers.

You are forgetting the fourth plane of September 11 namely United flight 93. You know the one that went down in southern Pennsylvania . What do you think it's likely targets likely were? It was heading towards D.C. before the passengers tried to retake it from the hijackers.

The 9/11 hijackers were selecting there targets based on their propaganda value. Choosing the Pentagon as a target was a strike on U.S. military power. The twin towers were a strike on U.S. financial and economic power.

If you follow the logic that the targets were chosen for propaganda value then the White House or the Capitol are logical targets. Indeed they could have gone for the Pentagon a second time, however I think the they would have gone for a target with a higher symbolic value.
 

Why was it implausible for lone wolfs to pull off an attack? I do believe that 767s and 757s are capable of being flown with one pilot.

Sam Byck tried to do it back in 1974. Of course he failed horribly. A way a lone wold terrorist MIGHT be able to pull it off could just be hoaxing the plane crew and passengers he has a bomb.

Even in the late 2000s there were some successful hijackings.

While such an attack would not be on the scale of 9/11, several hundreds dead is certainly a guarantee if this person has the plane in control.
 
yes, there US Troops in Europe but there number are in descent since Cold War is over.
so there are Neo Nazi and Far right networks and Organizations but there not so efficient organized als Islamic Terrorist like al-Qaeda & Co (in fact the Neo-nazi are rather Amateurish bunch of Idiots )
But since National Socialist origin from Austria and Germany, those nation can get in Focus of US politic after Right Wing 9/11
like you say metalinvader665, it need highly organized Terrorist network to pull a Right Wing 9/11, in that case the CIA would goes after Key figures of this Network who are in foreign countries, and arrest or killing then ( just like with some al-Qaeda members.)
That there happen "assessment error" is not new for CIA, ok Jean Marie Le Pen is over kill, but for Bert Eriksson certain.

The United States still has thousands of soldiers deployed to Europe to this day. That's more than enough for anything the US needs to do. There's no way you can construe this as a military threat to the United States unlike with 9/11. It's a case of international law enforcement and the US intelligence community exchanging information, and the suspects being arrested.

What if Bert Eriksson has nothing to do with this? The CIA wouldn't just be killing/kidnapping prominent figures in the European far-right at random, they'd be targetting people with an actual role. And some global network of far-right figures attacking the US sounds like an action movie (James Bond?) or a Tom Clancy-type airport novel.

Germany and Austria? Okay, sure Kurt Waldheim was President of Austria once, but that's a pretty tenuous link to Nazism since Waldheim was not exactly a neo-Nazi. And then why would neo-Nazis in Germany and Austria be so interested in the United States? Aren't they kind of angry at their own countries for censoring them, arresting them, and letting in immigrants? Why would they do help do something that would mean the United States will be assisting their home countries in arresting them? Why would they want to draw a massive international spotlight to their activities? Why not just commit terrorism in their own country to try and prove a point?

Analog to Right Wing 9/11: USA menaces it's NATO member and other European countries with high Neo-Nazis activity.
Either local Government take care of there problem with Right wings or US troops / Drones deal with them.

And that's the problem here--a right-wing analogue of 9/11 will be fundamentally different than the actual 9/11 to the point I don't know if you could even call it an analogue of 9/11. You don't have countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, one of which the US has actively intervened in and the other which is run by a literal terrorist group which shelters other terrorists. Having any Western European country in the 90s run by neo-Nazis is ASB. Even in Eastern Europe, I highly doubt a neo-Nazi/fascist/whatever party could take over a country. Even in Russia where you had the LDPR, it's highly unlikely they could win since the results would be rigged against them like it was for Zyuganov and the Communist Party. And the United States can't do much to an LDPR-ruled Russia, since Russia has a lot of nukes and messing around there means World War III. Likewise, Zhirinovsky knows this and wouldn't go for something as overt as funding terrorists to attack the United States in such a destructive way, since that's tantamount to a declaration of war meaning Russia will go up in radioactive smoke. Other Eastern European countries, with their poor economies in the 90s, are much more vulnerable to "regime change" efforts and US-backed revolutions.

Local governments would obviously take care of the problem, since I'm pretty sure it's illegal to commit terrorism in a foreign country in the majority of the world. There's literally no need for US soldiers or drone bombings since the local police will just do their job.

Thanks clarified that point. so Guantanamo will take foreign right wings and nazis

Guantanamo Bay has run into problems when the detainees are citizens of European nations like the UK. No way in hell is Germany, Belgium, whoever letting their citizens be held in a place like that. The concept of "unlawful combatant" and "enemy combatant" would be impossible to apply here. Is it because we're dealing with white Europeans and not brown Middle Easterners? Maybe that would play a part. But it's still a bunch of people being arrested by the police in a first world country where most people can safely believe the prison system is capable of dealing with them (even if they don't get the death sentence like many Americans would want, but Guantanamo isn't exactly hanging people left and right either). Yes, I know the European prison system doesn't give life sentences as much as the US prison system does, but that's not going to suddenly make the United States demand extradition of everyone involved. Although in theory, the United States could and possibly would extradite the ringleaders using the same justification they've done for extraditing El Chapo. But then you have issues which have faced Guantanamo, since most prisons don't want a bunch of foreign terrorists and there's only limited space in maximum security prisons/supermax prisons anyway, since the US prison system is notoriously overcrowded.

I worked in downtown D.C. for quite a few years at the World Bank. The White house is well within walking distance only a few blocks away. So I'm pretty familiar with downtown D.C.

Also I've flown out of Washington's Ronald Reagan National airport more than once. Takeoff and landing is usually over the Potomac river and many of the monuments and landmarks are clearly visible and recognisable. l've been able to recognize many of the buildings and monuments on the flights I had window seat.

Take the time to go on Google Earth and look at satellite imagery the landmarks are quite recognisable. Find Ronald Reagan National airport it's main runway points directly at the White House and the Washington monument. The current version of imagery you can see that the Washington monument's shadow points directly at the White House. If you scroll to the right from the Washington monument you'll find the National mall which leads you directly to Capitol hill and the Capitol itself.

I've only flown out of DC twice (I think both times Dulles, but it might've been Ronald Reagan, I can't remember, George W. Bush was president then), and I couldn't make out the main landmarks aside from the Pentagon. It might be you'd need a lot more flights out of there. The landmarks in question are pretty small too compared to some of the largest skyscrapers and office buildings in the world.

Google Earth is not a good judge of what things actually look like from the air.

Why was it implausible for lone wolfs to pull off an attack? I do believe that 767s and 757s are capable of being flown with one pilot.

Sam Byck tried to do it back in 1974. Of course he failed horribly. A way a lone wold terrorist MIGHT be able to pull it off could just be hoaxing the plane crew and passengers he has a bomb.

Even in the late 2000s there were some successful hijackings.

While such an attack would not be on the scale of 9/11, several hundreds dead is certainly a guarantee if this person has the plane in control.

They need overpower the flight crew and keep them out of the cockpit. This is why the 9/11 attacks included "muscle hijackers" who weren't there to fly the plane. I'd imagine that using a bomb to hijack a plane might go poorly when they realise you're there to fly the plane into a building and not just after money/going to Cuba/other typical hijackings. I think a lot of flight crew might as well just decide to attack you (and risk your "bomb" going off) instead of endangering people on the ground.
 
@metalinvader665 I've flown out of Reagan which is far closer to D.C. than either Dulles or BWI both of which I've flown out. It's literally across the Potomac river from D.C. the main runway like I said points toward the White house. The times I had early morning flights I was able to recognise quite a few of the monuments and buildings. What you see depends on which side of the plane your on.

Video of takeoff from Reagan. The Washington monument is pretty distinctive. Using it as a landmark you've got two stretches of greenery. A wide and relatively short one in front of the White house which is visible in the video and a long and relatively narrow one that points toward Capito hill.
 
Guantanamo Bay has run into problems when the detainees are citizens of European nations like the UK. No way in hell is Germany, Belgium, whoever letting their citizens be held in a place like that.

There were two Belgians detainees in Guantanamo Bay between 2002 and 2005, Then were repatriated back to Belgium, french had in same time 7 detainees there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay

Next to that had CIA in Coo
peration with other nations installed "detainees camps" aka "black site" like "Salt Pit" in Afghanistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site
There was one German citizen arrested do "assessment error" by CIA. (do miss spelling of his name, was confused with a Terrorist)
in 2002 he was arrested during vacation in Macedonia, brought to "Salt Pit" in Afghanistan and was severe torture by CIA, until they discover they had wrong man.
After 2 years of hell he was released in Macedonia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri
 
There were two Belgians detainees in Guantanamo Bay between 2002 and 2005, Then were repatriated back to Belgium, french had in same time 7 detainees there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay

Next to that had CIA in Coo
peration with other nations installed "detainees camps" aka "black site" like "Salt Pit" in Afghanistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site
There was one German citizen arrested do "assessment error" by CIA. (do miss spelling of his name, was confused with a Terrorist)
in 2002 he was arrested during vacation in Macedonia, brought to "Salt Pit" in Afghanistan and was severe torture by CIA, until they discover they had wrong man.
After 2 years of hell he was released in Macedonia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri

Yes, there were several, and it was rather controversial. And also note that the vast majority were dual citizens (and often weren't even born in the European country they were citizens of). Compared to native born people with citizenship in only their own country, that will amount to quite a difference in the public effect.
 
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