What has to happen to keep Quebec in the United States for the long-term?

[NAF]

Or perhaps the better question would be, how must the US government change in order to keep Quebec from walking?

Threads centered around Canada becoming part of the US are certainly a familiar sight on this forum, though in my experience virtually every discussion gets muddled down in the quagmire that is Quebec -- specifically regarding how you convince a population of largely French-speaking Catholics to join a largely anglo-dominated union. After reading through a great deal of these (sometimes heated) discussions, I've come to believe that although there are many factors going against it, keeping Quebec in the union for the long haul is by no means outright impossible, though there are certainly many obstacles to be overcome.

So, with that in mind, how do you see the early US government changing to appease the Canadiens? I imagine Quebec would be an adamant supporter of increased states' rights, for one thing.

 

[Nivek]

Or perhaps the better question would be, how must the US government change in order to keep Quebec from walking?

Threads centered around Canada becoming part of the US are certainly a familiar sight on this forum, though in my experience virtually every discussion gets muddled down in the quagmire that is Quebec -- specifically regarding how you convince a population of largely French-speaking Catholics to join a largely anglo-dominated union. After reading through a great deal of these (sometimes heated) discussions, I've come to believe that although there are many factors going against it, keeping Quebec in the union for the long haul is by no means outright impossible, though there are certainly many obstacles to be overcome.

So, with that in mind, how do you see the early US government changing to appease the Canadiens? I imagine Quebec would be an adamant supporter of increased states' rights, for one thing.

Allowing them to make French their Official Language would be the biggest, Catholicism is covered by the first amendment,(especially as say the congress would not make laws limiting freedom...but there no rule they can benefit their regional religion either) so is USA allowing Legal Bilinguism the only way to keep the Quebecious of not walking on their on once the brits are gone

 

[Mitchell Hundred]

Would the US have allowed them to retain their religion and language like the British offered in exchange for their loyalty to the crown? If the US simply invaded by force and put a policy of forced assimilation there probably wouldn't be the same issues of independence arising decades or centuries later.

There are a million plus Americans right now mainly in New England descended from French Canadian who immigrated there. They assimilated so well you almost never think of them as a distinct group.

 

[Sevarics]

I think it would be interesting just from the point of view that the first amendment didn’t apply to the states at first so theoretically Quebec as a state could favor Catholicism.

 

[Don Corleone]

I think it would be interesting just from the point of view that the first amendment didn’t apply to the states at first so theoretically Quebec as a state could favor Catholicism.

Which the rest of the states might like - get their Catholic population to move to Quebec.

 

[Lusitania]

So we have gone from modifying the constitution to outright occupation. Pretty stark contrast. Don’t we think. The thing is when is the US going to invade and conquer Canada? While today they have have a huge military that not always the case.
Also the Catholics in Louisiana had a lot of rights that were removed later on. Also look at all the rights promised in the treaty with Mexico for Spanish speaking Catholics that was never given to them.
Lastly we not talking about 10-20,000 people by 1800 they numbered over 200,000

 

[NAF]

So we have gone from modifying the constitution to outright occupation. Pretty stark contrast. Don’t we think. The thing is when is the US going to invade and conquer Canada? While today they have have a huge military that not always the case.
Also the Catholics in Louisiana had a lot of rights that were removed later on. Also look at all the rights promised in the treaty with Mexico for Spanish speaking Catholics that was never given to them.
Lastly we not talking about 10-20,000 people by 1800 they numbered over 200,000

I agree that any POD involving the conquest of Quebec is a non-starter. After all, the OTL American invasion of Quebec in 1775 certainly didn't do much to win the hearts and minds of the Canadiens. I believe that for Quebec to become an integral part of the US and not secede shortly after will require them to willingly join with the revolutionaries from the start. This would, of course, require for the British to sour relations with their Canadien subjects to the degree that they would rise in rebellion against them.

 

[Lusitania]

I agree that any POD involving the conquest of Quebec is a non-starter. After all, the OTL American invasion of Quebec in 1775 certainly didn't do much to win the hearts and minds of the Canadiens. I believe that for Quebec to become an integral part of the US and not secede shortly after will require them to willingly join with the revolutionaries from the start. This would, of course, require for the British to sour relations with their Canadien subjects to the degree that they would rise in rebellion against them.

The other factor is that the French Quebec would require that they be treated as an equal. Meaning that their rights or any state to support their language, culture and religion. Otherwise stay with the British.

the only point I wish to mAke is that for the British to screw the French so they be angry with British rule would of required /or reduced a different set of circumstances or intolerable acts which could of affected way the ARW would of happen.

 

[Dan1988]

I'm actually in the middle of work for summer classes, so cannot respond to the OP in the detail I like (nor could I link to other posts I've made on this). Probably one of the easiest - though only with our benefit of hindsight; at the time it would be very difficult for people to see it as an option - would be to drop objections to the Quebec Act. There were understandable (albeit reprehensible) reasons why the Americans saw it as one of the Intolerable Acts, but in reality it was the right thing to do (seeing as the Quebec Act legitimized what the British Army was already doing in Canada anyway) - the Continental Army would have had to do something similar anyway. Even if the responsible institutions were somewhat imperfect with dealing with Canadiens' actual needs. If the Continental Army did not reciprocate that level of respect, Quebec is going out the door.

 

[cloistered scholar]

In a situation we're the Americans successfully occupy Canada during the ARW, France could very well demand most of it returned to French rule.

 

[jenalysis]

Allowing them to make French their Official Language would be the biggest, Catholicism is covered by the first amendment,(especially as say the congress would not make laws limiting freedom...but there no rule they can benefit their regional religion either) so is USA allowing Legal Bilinguism the only way to keep the Quebecious of not walking on their on once the brits are gone

Both those things could be done under the Constitution of 1789.

Having the US occupy Quebec is ASB. The US wouldn't be strong enough to keep an unwilling Quebec, they'd have to negotiate or let them go.

 

[NAF]

In a situation we're the Americans successfully occupy Canada during the ARW, France could very well demand most of it returned to French rule.

I very much doubt it. If the French were interested in regaining Canada after its loss then they would have accepted the British offer to return it in the Treaty of Paris. Canada was a hard-to-defend money sink and the French knew it. If the US incorporates the region and treats its French speakers well (which it had better if it wants to maintain control) then I expect France to remain largely indifferent.

 

[galanx]

The franchise was limited to property=holders in many states in the early United States. I could see this being offered to the seigneurs to split them from the habitants at first.

 

[NAF]

How does Quebec impact the discussion around the separation of church and state?

 

[Strategos' Risk]

I'm still a fan of the Quebec Libre idea of having it as a (Catholic, conservative to semi-feudal) sister republic that exists next to the U.S. but not part of it.

 

[Analytical Engine]

How does Quebec impact the discussion around the separation of church and state?

Don't forget, several states had official (some times de facto official) churches for a while, even after the constitution was ratified.

State religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NAF]

Don't forget, several states had official (some times de facto official) churches for a while, even after the constitution was ratified.

State religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, but they were all eventually phased out in the end. Quebec, on the other hand, had (and largely still has) a cultural siege mentality that drove them to promote their own French and Catholic institutions to maintain their identity in the face of possible anglo-protestant incursions. I could see Quebec pressing for the right to maintain an official state church long past their OTL expiration date among the OTL US states.

 

[Lusitania]

The issue is language. The québécois not going to English. How the rest going to deal with that

 

[NAF]

The issue is language. The québécois not going to English. How the rest going to deal with that

I think that the early US administrations will (hopefully) be smart enough to realize that the Québécois aren't going to willingly give up their culture and language and as such wouldn't waste their time trying to forcefully assimilate them. The early US was incredibly permissive in terms of the freedoms it allotted to individual states, and so I doubt that they would have any issue with letting Quebec speak whatever language they please (especially when they fought alongside the English-speaking states in the war for independence).

 

[GauchoBadger]

The issue is language. The québécois not going to English. How the rest going to deal with that

So long as the use of French is restricted to Quebec proper and government administrators on both sides can translate, the states won't make much of a fuss. The US constitution does not specify that the country needs a single language.