What happens to the Ukrainian State/The Hetmanate upon German victory?

Hi all

If this has been discussed can someone please post the forum link thank you.

The Central powers set up the "Ukrainian State" which was controlled by a Hetman. This was provisional dictatorship until World War I ended, if the German Empire had won WW1 what would have happened to this state. Turned into a Kingdom? given to a prince?
 
Hi all

If this has been discussed can someone please post the forum link thank you.

The Central powers set up the "Ukrainian State" which was controlled by a Hetman. This was provisional dictatorship until World War I ended, if the German Empire had won WW1 what would have happened to this state. Turned into a Kingdom? given to a prince?

Wasn´t it just a puppet "government" lead by Stephan Bandera ?
 
Wasn´t it just a puppet "government" lead by Stephan Bandera ?

Pavlo Skoropadskyi actually. He became Hetmen on April 29th following a coup.

To answer the OP though, it would really depend on how a victory came about and what happened immediately after. With the Central powers being in pretty much complete economic ruin, I'm not sure if the Germans would be willing to leave a sizeable force within the eastern part of the nation. In OTL that number was nearly one million men even after transferring ~400,000 to the western front.
Skoropadskyi was over-thrown by a popular uprising in November of 1918, but it was also in time with the German troops leaving Kiev so unless they kept a large amount of men within the nation then the uprising would likely still occur.
 
As I understand it, the Hetman was himself supposed to be a monarch of sorts, not (just) a dictator. So presumably no German princes installed.

That said, Skoropadsky's seizure of power was strongly connected to Germany and its desire for a more puppetized government in Ukraine. His regime depends on whether Germany is willing to keep Ukraine occupied to suppress his enemies, how much and for how long.
 
I think looking at the country's past is best, I know the government was just set up 1918 so looking at the "lands" so to speak is best. In rough draft I came up with following scenarios following your reactions.

Ukraine was part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and had many monarchies as a result. There would have been many candidates and I know you said no german princes but there was a German house who sat on the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth throne and that was Wettin. (Polish-Lithuanian-Saxony Commonwealth) Whether or not that changes anything who knows but keep in mind there are loads of other houses as well.

This is a bit outrageous but to me seems like common sense at the same time. Strap Ukraine to Germany itself, personal union with the kaiser, basically direct rule. If you going to rule people who hate you might as well put the fear of god in them hadn't you.

My initial thought went to the Austria-Hungarian Empire and I know they wanted to put a prince on the throne of Poland because he had links there, whether or not the same in one form or another could be applied to Ukraine is a totally different thing but there you go. Only a thought.

I knew the Germans lost the war through a lot of their army on the Eastern front and not enough on the western front but I didn't know it was 1 million troops they left behind. If that was just Ukraine I'd expect it to be much higher because of Poland, Baltic states, Finland and Lithuania. No wonder they lost the war, thank you for that fact.
 
If that was just Ukraine I'd expect it to be much higher because of Poland, Baltic states, Finland and Lithuania. No wonder they lost the war, thank you for that fact.

It was the entire Eastern territories, I can't find any solid numbers of Troops in Ukraine alone.
But the problem is that the treaty of Brest-Litvosk (Ukraine) pretty much destroyed the Austro-Hungarian government. The parliament was paralyzed, civil strikes occurred, and many Poles from the army ended up deserting and joining the Russians. The whites/reds/pro-independence/all other factions are going to be trying to re-take Ukraine just like in OTL.

Ukraine was part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and had many monarchies as a result. There would have been many candidates and I know you said no german princes but there was a German house who sat on the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth throne and that was Wettin. (Polish-Lithuanian-Saxony Commonwealth) Whether or not that changes anything who knows but keep in mind there are loads of other houses as well.

Really doesn't help you, especially with the cluster of factions that rose up and pretty much destroyed Monarchies in the immediate after-math of World War 1.
It wouldn't matter if they had a claimant to any house really, no one would care.

This is a bit outrageous but to me seems like common sense at the same time. Strap Ukraine to Germany itself, personal union with the kaiser, basically direct rule. If you going to rule people who hate you might as well put the fear of god in them hadn't you.

It would help if they could actually rule the people first. What time-frame are you trying to put this in? Because you already would need rather large butterflies to have the Central powers be victors in the war.
 
It would help if they could actually rule the people first. What time-frame are you trying to put this in? Because you already would need rather large butterflies to have the Central powers be victors in the war.

Not necessarily too large a butterfly, it was up until 1918, anyone's game with WWI. The CP had just as much a chance to win as the Entente.

That being said, it'd largely depend on how much of the German economy comes out of the war. Germany's economy was in ruins, just like the Entente, and it was the U.S. entry, and with it, U.S. funds that helped to keep the Entente's economy afloat long enough to keep them going to victory. Obviously such victory over Russia would have to happen before the U.S. gets involved.

Either way, a CP victory will see the Ukraine economically attached to Germany, whether or not it would remain a Hetmanate under Skoropadsky, or a monarchy under the Archduke Wlhelm Franz, (Styled Vasyl), that I cannot say for sure. Too many factors.
 
Not necessarily too large a butterfly, it was up until 1918, anyone's game with WWI. The CP had just as much a chance to win as the Entente.

That being said, it'd largely depend on how much of the German economy comes out of the war. Germany's economy was in ruins, just like the Entente, and it was the U.S. entry, and with it, U.S. funds that helped to keep the Entente's economy afloat long enough to keep them going to victory. Obviously such victory over Russia would have to happen before the U.S. gets involved.

Either way, a CP victory will see the Ukraine economically attached to Germany, whether or not it would remain a Hetmanate under Skoropadsky, or a monarchy under the Archduke Wlhelm Franz, (Styled Vasyl), that I cannot say for sure. Too many factors.

Thank you for mentioning Archduke Wilhelm of Austria. On Wikipedia if that stands for anything, it says that Austria-Hungary supported Archduke Wilhelm of Austria to becoming king of Ukraine while the German Empire supported Skoropadsky's rule. It seems in reality that Germany was getting it's way so to speak, however the locals called him "Prince Vasyl" and several attempts were made at overthrowing the Ukrainian State/The Hetmanate and turning it into a monarchy which would have been a kingdom.
 
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Well, I can't say if Germany would have a say in Ukrainian affairs afterwards, given the fact that even if they win, they'd probably would've broke their arm doing so. I can imagine a compromise where both Wilhelm and Skoropadsky sharing power, ala how Kaiserreich described it, but again, it still depends on a lot of factors, factors that may or may not also end in Ukrainian People's Republic or being re-annexed into Russia.
 
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