What happens to the Austrian monarchy in a Greater German Empire?

In the classic scenario in which the central powers win, but A-H still collapses in the 1920s and the Austrian rump state joins Germany, what would happen to the monarchy? It seems obvious that the Austrians would want to retain the title of emperor and rule as Co emperors and equals, which would probably be supported by the south german states. The Prussians on the other hand would obviously want to avoid sharing their power.
 
Probably Habsburgs are enforced to choice: Either accept status of king of Austria or then get off and Austria becomes Reichland or there is created new dynasty which accepts being kings of Austria.
 
I've thought about this. In fact I even posted something that involved this happening a while back.

Basically it boils down to the German imperial government saying "I'm not asking".
As such, Karl is forced to accept a downgrade to King of Austria.

The only other option is for him is to be dethroned.
 

Typho

Banned
I've thought about this. In fact I even posted something that involved this happening a while back.

Basically it boils down to the German imperial government saying "I'm not asking".
As such, Karl is forced to accept a downgrade to King of Austria.

The only other option is for him is to be dethroned.
What if it's most of cisleithania joining Germany, would the Hapsburgs still be downgraded to king?
 
Assuming Austrio-Hungury collapses the Hapsburgs are not going to have a lot of negotiating power.
There is a chance that they get to keep the name but are still under the Hohenzollerns ie a King in all but name. The Prussians would possibly want a name change

Wilhelm I originally wanted Emperor of Germany (Kaiser von Deutschland ) rather than German Emperor, but the Germans at Bismarck's urging went with German Emperor to in part avoid pissing off the Hapsburgs. Perhaps in this situation they go for Kaiser von Deutschland.
 
What if it's most of cisleithania joining Germany, would the Hapsburgs still be downgraded to king?

If it is post-CP victory collapse, I bit doubt that Cisleithania would even survive as unified and Germany hardly wants whole Cisleithania, speciality Prussian junkers. Probably only Austria and Sudetelands would are annexed. Prussians want to keep Austria as weak as possible.
 
Prussia wouldn't accept them being co emporers, maybe they can make up some title for them thats aboce king but below emperor like "archking" or "grand king" or something like that. Or maybe they can still be called kaiser but it only applies to Austria (weirder systems have existed)
 
Prussia wouldn't accept them being co emporers, maybe they can make up some title for them thats aboce king but below emperor like "archking" or "grand king" or something like that. Or maybe they can still be called kaiser but it only applies to Austria (weirder systems have existed)

Or return to archduke. It was title of Austrian rulers before Franz I adopted title emperor of Austria.

But probably it would be still just king, altough archking sounds intresting.
 
The main branch remains the king of Hungary and a minor branch becomes the archduke of Austria. Maybe another branch is set up in Bohemia if the germans decide to take that as well.
 

Typho

Banned
If it is post-CP victory collapse, I bit doubt that Cisleithania would even survive as unified and Germany hardly wants whole Cisleithania, speciality Prussian junkers. Probably only Austria and Sudetelands would are annexed. Prussians want to keep Austria as weak as possible.
In a AH collapse, it most likely stems from the hungarians, rather than the Czechs or Slovenes.

So I don't imagine Bohemia leaving victorious Austria.
 
In a AH collapse, it most likely stems from the hungarians, rather than the Czechs or Slovenes.

So I don't imagine Bohemia leaving victorious Austria.
I think the Germans would be doing the leaving. It's mostly they who would have to share more power and they who have the best out. Them or the Hungarians.
 
Probably Habsburgs are enforced to choice: Either accept status of king of Austria or then get off and Austria becomes Reichland or there is created new dynasty which accepts being kings of Austria.
Gonna be great. ATL people might not realize that, but the original Reichsland – Alsace-Lorraine – was a dumpster fire whose populace eventually said "fuck it, we're trying our luck with Paris" despite being 90% Germanophone.
 
In the classic scenario in which the central powers win, but A-H still collapses in the 1920s and the Austrian rump state joins Germany, what would happen to the monarchy? It seems obvious that the Austrians would want to retain the title of emperor and rule as Co emperors and equals, which would probably be supported by the south german states. The Prussians on the other hand would obviously want to avoid sharing their power.
I am basing my opinion on 3 premises.

(1) The OP’s description is : “Austrian rump state”. This description would seem to heavily imply that all the rest of what had been Austria-Hungary, including the Czech lands, was lost to the Habsburgs. Unclear but such a victorious rump state would probably include the Sudentenland.

(2) If OTL death of the Emperor-King Charles I (Charles IV in Hungary… Karl I or IV. Károly ) still happens, his death on April 1, 1922 (It may not; he caught a cold in exile in Madeira which caused his death from bronchitis.) would leave the 9-year-old Otto as his successor. Either way, neither Charles (see 3. Below) nor the boy Otto would have much clout with Germany after losing most of their empire.

(3) During World War One, Austria-Hungary could not have stood alone and needed massive German support. By the war’s end, Austria-Hungary had become very much a junior partner/satellite to the German Empire. There was a German saying about this relationship: “We are fettered to a corpse.” Added to this German condescension, there was the fact that Charles had negotiated for peace with the Allies behind Germany’s back, even to the point of agreeing that Alsace-Lorraine should be returned to France. Needless to say, the Germans were very angry with Charles’ s double dealing.

From these 3 premises, it would seem clear that the rump Austrians would be in a very weak position to negotiate a co-equal status with Emperor Wilhelm II within a newly enlarged Germany. In prewar Germany, there were 4 Kings and only one of them was the German Emperor.

In OTL, the Austrian Republic in 1923 had a population of about 6.5 million. That had been the Kingdom of Bavaria’s population in 1910, 13 years before. By the early 1920s, Bavaria’s population was around 7 million. In OTL in 1921, 3.1 million German speakers (primarily the Sudentenland) lived in Czechoslovakia. Even with the Sudentenland included, Bavaria and rump Austria would be about the same size population-wise. Prussia of course was much larger in population than both Austria and Bavaria combined

Before the 1871 German Unification, the three independent South German states of Bavaria, Baden and Württemberg could never cooperate with each other or recognize one of them as a leader of their bloc due to jealousy. Based on this, I do not think any of these three states would look fondly on a rump Austria achieving a higher position, that of Emperor, which they did not have,

The German Emperor was also the King of Prussia, in effect a dual position. An Austrian Emperor would not have any legal sway beyond his rump Austria so why should he have such an exalted title would no doubt be the question of all the German royals.

Also such a title might become a laughingstock. Remember Napoleon I was the Emperor of the French and the arbiter of Europe. Then he lost and was the “Emperor of Elba”, a tiny island off the Italian coast. What a comedown.

If I were Charles or Otto, I would gladly opt to be a King, which after all, is just one level below an Emperor.
 

Typho

Banned
So would it be a cisleithania within Imperial Germany? A lesser kaiser. The Hapsburg had cured Bohemia, Austria, Tyrol as much as Prussia had Silesia or the Rhineland. So splitting these up from Austria don't make much sense.
 

Germaniac

Donor
The main branch remains the king of Hungary and a minor branch becomes the archduke of Austria. Maybe another branch is set up in Bohemia if the germans decide to take that as well.
I actually think it would be the opposite. I think Archduke Joseph August, Palatine of Hungary, would be more likely to take the Hungarian throne in such a scenario. His branch of the family had resided in Hungary since his grandfather (5th son of Leopold II) was named Palatine.

Karl would most likely remain as King of Austria, German Bohemia, and the Sudetenland as part of the German Empire.
 

Typho

Banned
Karl would most likely remain as King of Austria, German Bohemia, and the Sudetenland as part of the German Empire.
But what is Austria? Upper and lower archduchies, how does this compute with sytria Tyrol Salzburg counties?
 
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I actually think it would be the opposite. I think Archduke Joseph August, Palatine of Hungary, would be more likely to take the Hungarian throne in such a scenario. His branch of the family had resided in Hungary since his grandfather (5th son of Leopold II) was named Palatine.

Karl would most likely remain as King of Austria, German Bohemia, and the Sudetenland as part of the German Empire.
I would like to remind you (everbody's meant with this) that there never was an austrian "kingdom". the austrian, habsburgian 'homelands' (Stammlande) were at max an Arch Duchy.
The House Habsburg became bohemian and hungarian-croation kings only by inheriting these title by the childless death of Kaiser Sigismund while the habburgian heir and Duke of Austria Albrecht II had married the formers daughter in 1421.

He also then did NOT inherit the title of King of Germany. He had to be elected as such. What also was valid for the title of Kaiser of the HRR.

The last roman-german King ... and Kaiser of the HRR, the habsburgian let - de jure illegally - the tite of 'Kaiser' (emperor) be 'granted' to him by Napolean as price for the habsburgian - de jure as illegally - dissoluting the HRR in 1806. Only since then there was an 'Austrian Emperor' or Kaiser.

In what ever manner the different habsburgian lines would 'sort out' who's inheriting which 'crown', I'm rather sure the germans would 'allow' into the new Greater german Realm 'only' a distinct Bohemia - as kingdom maybe - and a distinct Austria - as 'Archduchy' maybe - both with the same rights and duties as the other 'higher up' members of the German Realm as Bavaria, Saxony, Badenia and as well Prussia. ... but very likely not with the same person seating on the throne od Austria and Bohemia.

But what is Austria? Upper and lower, how does this compute with sytria Tyrol Salzburg?
Cisleithania sans Bohemia
... and therewith including Styria, Tyrol, Salzburg lower and upper Austria in the same manner as Prussia encompassed Silesia, Brandenburgia, Prussia, Rheinprovince, etc.
 
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But what is Austria? Upper and lower archduchies, how does this compute with sytria Tyrol Salzburg counties?

Austria. About same area what modern Austria consists. Perhaps too some parts of Sudeteland and certainly Southern Tyrol and Istria too. Hungary and Croatia would become independent. Not sure what would happen to Bosnia. Bohemia probbly would become independent puppet kingdom or be annexed by Germany but without Sudeteland.
 

Typho

Banned
I would like to remind you (everbody's meant with this) that there never was an austrian "kingdom". the austrian, habsburgian 'homelands' (Stammlande) were at max an Arch Duchy.
The House Habsburg became bohemian and hungarian-croation kings only by inheriting these title by the childless death of Kaiser Sigismund while the habburgian heir and Duke of Austria Albrecht II had married the formers daughter in 1421.

He also then did NOT inherit the title of King of Germany. He had to be elected as such. What also was valid for the title of Kaiser of the HRR.

The last roman-german King ... and Kaiser of the HRR, the habsburgian let - de jure illegally - the tite of 'Kaiser' (emperor) be 'granted' to him by Napolean as price for the habsburgian - de jure as illegally - dissoluting the HRR in 1806. Only since then there was an 'Austrian Emperor' or Kaiser.

In what ever manner the different habsburgian lines would 'sort out' who's inheriting which 'crown', I'm rather sure the germans would 'allow' into the new Greater german Realm 'only' a distinct Bohemia - as kingdom maybe - and a distinct Austria - as 'Archduchy' maybe - both with the same rights and duties as the other 'higher up' members of the German Realm as Bavaria, Saxony, Badenia and as well Prussia. ... but very likely not with the same person seating on the throne od Austria and Bohemia.


Cisleithania sans Bohemia
... and therewith including Styria, Tyrol, Salzburg lower and upper Austria in the same manner as Prussia encompassed Silesia, Brandenburgia, Prussia, Rheinprovince, etc.
From a technical standpoint, I like the idea of Archduchy of lower Austria, Archduchy of upper Austria, Kingdom of Bohemia, Grand Duchy of Carniola, Grand Duchy of Carithina , Grand Duchy of Salzburg, Margraviates of Moravia, County of Tyrol, County of Voralburg as equivalents to Prussian Provinces of East Prussia, West Prussia, Posen, Brandburg. Or Bavarian subdivisions such as large Krieses.
Austria. About same area what modern Austria consists. Perhaps too some parts of Sudeteland and certainly Southern Tyrol and Istria too. Hungary and Croatia would become independent. Not sure what would happen to Bosnia. Bohemia probbly would become independent puppet kingdom or be annexed by Germany but without Sudeteland.
An issue is the pre-existing subdivisions of archduchies, grand duchies and counties, I don't believe they would be carving up the administrations.
 
Co-emperor wouldn't be on the cards as others have said in this scenario.

King? No there's no history of Austria kings.

I think it would be Archduke, which has history and, at least in the days of the HRE, was of equal standing to a king (one of the reasons the all-powerful Hapsburg never raised themselves to kings in Austria, they didn't need to). It would be far more palatible to Austrian traditions IMO and inventing a new title wouldn't change what standing they have within the German Empire.
 
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