What happens to other powers in a continuing Roman dominated Europe?

Alright, let's say Rome never falls. Valens wins at Adrianople, and then the Empire goes through a lucky patch of decent Emperors in the later fourth and fifth centuries, or something. The Huns come along and stir up the Germans, but the Romans manage to hold them out, settling a few as foederati, but otherwise keeping the Rhine/Danube/Tigris frontier intact.

To summarise, in 500AD, we have a still strong Western Roman state matched by an even stronger ERE. My question is, what happens to Germania. How long does it take for Roman missionaries to convert it to Christianity- or would this even happen at all? When does urbanisation start to kick in? Will the Germanic states ever prove a serious threat to the Empire after the 6th century?

Equally, what happens to Sassanid Persia? Constantinople won't have her hands tied reconquering the West in the sixth century, so will be able to channel all of her energies into establishing full control over Armenia and Iberia: how do the Persians respond to this? Would Persia adopt a form of Christianity in the end? With a stronger ERE to face, will the Persians collapse when attacked by the Hepthalites and Gokturks?

And finally, what about the other, smaller groups coexisting with the Romans: the Berbers, the Celts, the Arabs, the African kingdoms like Axum and Meroe?
 
I believe that after the Hunnic invasion and thus the great Germanic migrations, there'll be alot of territorial wars between the tribes beyond the Roman borders.

I think Britannia will easily be maintained without Germanic invasions, and maybe an invasion of Caledonia and/or Hibernia might be plausible.

The Gauls, if i recall, didn't consider themselves Gauls too often by the 6th century (Gaulish was becoming an extinct language, Gauls spoke Latin often, etc), so i don't think they will prove a real threat.

And if the Romans managed to keep the Germans and Huns out of their empire, i'm sure neither the Berbers nor the Arabs will pose a threat in Africa.

I'm not too sure about Sassanid Persia and the Eastern Roman Empire though! :confused:

-Korporal Nooij.
 

Philip

Donor
My question is, what happens to Germania. How long does it take for Roman missionaries to convert it to Christianity- or would this even happen at all?

Hmm, my guess is that the foederati convert as a sign of good faith[1]. After that, Christianity slowly spreads through the rest of Germania. The Germans might not like it, but actively opposing it will anger the Romans.

Equally, what happens to Sassanid Persia? Constantinople won't have her hands tied reconquering the West in the sixth century, so will be able to channel all of her energies into establishing full control over Armenia and Iberia:
They need to worry about the Danube as well as the assorted Slavs and Turks arrive, but, as you say, there are much more resources to dedicate to the east.

how do the Persians respond to this?
It depends on how the Romans go about it. If the Romans fully integrate the territory into the ERE, the Persians probably won't be able to prevent it. If the Romans try to exercise control through protectorates and such, then the Persians can probably continue to split off parts as they become irritated with Roman overlordships.

Would Persia adopt a form of Christianity in the end?
I don't think so. The Sassanids went back and forth on Christianity, but I think they would take a stronger line if the Christians are perceived as a problem. So, bottom-up conversion is probably only going to be allowed to go too far. Also, I doubt the established powers will permit a formal/top-down conversion.

Maybe if Iran and Mesopotamia are split, Mesopotamia might convert. In such an invent, I see Zoroastrianism surviving the east (possibly slowly supplanted by Buddhism or and Zoroastrian-Buddhist syncretism?)

With a stronger ERE to face, will the Persians collapse when attacked by the Hepthalites and Gokturks?
OTL, they handled the Hepthalites after some difficulties, but this might change. IIRC, the Sassanids often collected tribute from ERE and used it to pay tribute to the Hephthalites. If ERE is stronger, this well might dry up. Even so, I don't see them collapsing. More likely, there is a dynastic change as the invaders take over followed by assimilation.

And finally, what about the other, smaller groups coexisting with the Romans: the Berbers, the Celts, the Arabs, the African kingdoms like Axum and Meroe?
Arabs: Depends on if they consolidate. If they don't, ERE and Sassanids (or successors), ( and Axum (?), Indians (?)) play the tribes off each other. If they do consolidate, then it all depends on specifics of the consolidation.

Berbers: IIRC, some were already assimilated into the RE OTL. The others will probably have a similar history as IOTL, with Christianity replacing Islam.

Celts: Not sure. Probably parallel development.

African Kingdoms: Expanded cultural and commercial exchange with ERE (and thus the rest of Mediterranean). Possible expansion (at least commercial) across the Indian Ocean basin. They may be the greatest beneficiaries of TTL.

[1] Sorry.
 
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I think it would be far more interesting if there is continuing roman cultural domination. I dare say that the cultural influence of Rome was far more potent than its temporal powers. Lets say the Romans are able to further better ties with the various Germanic tribes leading to the formation of several buffer states which are enthuesastic trading partners, supplying the romans with iron, timber, fur and slaves for wine and manufactured goods.

The germans can still be forced out into the greater western empire, toppling it for a while. However, their kings speak latin, recognize the cultural legacy of the empire, and war with eachouterh inorder to reestablish the mandate of empire. Within a hundred years or so, with much intrege and violance, the roman empire has been largely restored. Was rinse and repeat with both magyers and slavs.
 
it will be somewhat like the no norman TL in the linguistic side.
Linguistic
-Popular Italian will be similar to the southern italian dialects(such as Romanesco and Neapolitan), tuscan will get influences from dialects south of it instead but it will still important.
-Occitan will continue it's prestige, but does not penetrate iberia so no catalan, might even replace latin.
-NavarroAragonese, Mozarabic and 'North Iberian' romance will predominate.
-Romance speaking parts of africa and germany.
Political
-No Al Andalus
 

Philip

Donor
it will be somewhat like the no norman TL in the linguistic side.
Linguistic
-Popular Italian will be similar to the southern italian dialects(such as Romanesco and Neapolitan), tuscan will get influences from dialects south of it instead but it will still important.
-Occitan will continue it's prestige, but does not penetrate iberia so no catalan, might even replace latin.
-NavarroAragonese, Mozarabic and 'North Iberian' romance will predominate.
-Romance speaking parts of africa and germany.

Given the date of the POD, I doubt the existence of these languages/dialects in TTL

Popular Italian? ITTL, why would Latin ever disappear? Sure, it would evolve, but given a strong WRE, I doubt we would see the fragmentation that occurred IOTL.

And Mozarabic? With a strong WRE, how do you propose to get a strong Arabic influence in Iberia?
 
Given the date of the POD, I doubt the existence of these languages/dialects in TTL

Popular Italian? ITTL, why would Latin ever disappear? Sure, it would evolve, but given a strong WRE, I doubt we would see the fragmentation that occurred IOTL.

And Mozarabic? With a strong WRE, how do you propose to get a strong Arabic influence in Iberia?

Old Italian(South of La-Spezia-Rimini line) already exists in the sacking of rome as well as Occitan(which came from GalloRomance of Gallic Empire) but they had not expanded yet from their homeland they had just emerged.
Mozarabic=Pre Al-Andalus Romance languages in the iberian peninsula in muslim occupied regions
 
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