I’ve seen tons of threads asking what would happen to the Jews if there is no Israel post-Holocaust (ie where Palestine is defeated in the 1948 War or if the British declare the Balfour Declaration void, etc) but I’ve never seen a thread on here which asks what happens to Judaism itself in such event. Most Jews would end up in the Anglosphere/Latin America but what happens to their ethnic or religious identity/culture upon arrival? How would it shift for better or worse?
What happens to Judaism Post-Holocaust Without Israel?
- Thread starter PGSBHurricane
- Start date
Maybe more emphasis the migrant/exile nature? i could imagine more going to USA and vote against dems at the time
I tend to think that most of the DPs would end up as eternal refugees in camps like the Palestinians, myself. Which would obviously have a profound influence. Such Jews would become increasingly bitter, militant, and resentful, probably, though I'm not sure what form their national myth would take without lost land. Hell, it might still even be for an Israel that never existed.
Diaspora Jews would probably mostly ignore them, with the exception of a bunch of charity organizations.
P.S. the British did declare the Balfour Declaration void, more or less. The 1922 Churchill White Letter clarified that "Jewish homeland" had never meant "Jewish state". The British severely restricted Jewish immigration into Mandatory Palestine, and often took police action against Zionist organizations.
Ficboy
Banned
The United States would undoubtedly become the centre of Jewish people worldwide with 4.5 million-5 million living there given their involvement in government/politics, finance and media (i.e. Hollywood and entertainment) in any No Israel scenario whether if its a Nazi German victory in World War II and the Holocaust becomes much worse or if Israel fell in the 1948 Arab-Israeli Conflict.
Do you think the Jewish DPs could become atheists or convert to other religions and intermarry in order to feel more accepted into other societies? Aside from Palestine, no one was really wanting to open their doors to them in the immediate post-war years. In fact, anti-semitism actually peaked in the USA (The second largest source of Jewish immigration after Palestine) between 1945 and 1948 and only declined substantially with the creation of Israel IOTL. Without that, I’m not sure even American Jews would be widely accepted in society, let alone any DPs. Acceptance could be delayed by years or even decades. In that event, could conversion or intermarriage into other religions be plausible in the US or elsewhere in the world?
All those jews move to the US, and half that move to the US would probably end up in NYC. As such NYC would have a population of 11 million today.
Was it really necessary to mention Jews' participation in politics, finance, and the media?
I doubt conversion would matter; the Holocaust fixed Jews as a race, not just a religion.
I'm not certain to what extent the foundation of Israel affected antisemitism in the US or elsewhere. I've heard that the Israeli victory in 1967 gave Americans Jews a great deal more confidence and helped them take an attitude of "we won't be victims any more!" and arguably made them more aggressive in things like civil rights, but I've never heard anything about 1948.
The US wasn't letting them in in 1938 and it wasn't letting them in in 1948. The US only raised restrictions on allowing DPs to enter after the vast majority of them had gone to the newly-founded Israel.
I am aware that a significant portion of the Jews would move to the United States. The thread asks what happens to Judaism itself though, religiously and ethnically, not necessarily to the Jews.
Oh, no doubt it would live on to some degree. Question is, how would it change?
Ficboy
Banned
I'm only mentioning in the context of the massive Jewish immigration to the United States from 1880-1920 that led to this. I am no anti-Semite and neo-Nazi myself. Jews are an incredibly diverse group of people just look at Sub-Saharan Africa (Ethiopia's Beta Israel and Malawi's Lemba), Asia (India's Bene Israel and Cochin Jews, China's Kaifeng Jews and Central Asia's Bukharan Jews), the Middle East/North Africa (the Mizrahim) and Europe to an extent (Italy's Italkim, Greece's Romaniotes, Ukraine's Crimean Karaites and Krymchaks) and the Caucasus (Georgia's Gruzim and Armenia/Azerbaijan's Juhurim). Jews in these places are very different from their European Ashkenazic/Sephardi counterparts in terms of physical appearances, languages and history.
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Deleted member 109224
The Jews of Tunisia, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Algeria, and Egypt probably end up in France.
Zionism in Palestine meant that Jews in the Arab World were increasingly unwelcome, even before 1948. Meanwhile Nasser's Arabization program went after Greeks and Armenians OTL, despite a millennia-long presence, so why wouldn't he go after the Jews as well?
Israel created a strong national element which kept assimilated Jews tied to the jewish community though. It was a source of pride for Jews abroad that such a scrappy little state could exist after 2000 years of calamity after calamity. The cultural identity might be weaker, or at least a bit more "keep your head down".
Zionism in Palestine meant that Jews in the Arab World were increasingly unwelcome, even before 1948. Meanwhile Nasser's Arabization program went after Greeks and Armenians OTL, despite a millennia-long presence, so why wouldn't he go after the Jews as well?
Israel created a strong national element which kept assimilated Jews tied to the jewish community though. It was a source of pride for Jews abroad that such a scrappy little state could exist after 2000 years of calamity after calamity. The cultural identity might be weaker, or at least a bit more "keep your head down".
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He didn’t target them. He nationalized their businesses due to his economic policies
and they left as a result.
However without the creation of Israel, its not necessary tensions boil over as in otl along with drive to settle in Israel to led to the massive movement of Jews out of the Arab world to occur .
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