What happens if Germany doesn't declare war on USA?

So, if the other Axis powers do not declare war on the USA after Pearl Harbor...what changes?

Does America fight a separate war with the Allies against Japan's empire and NOT attack Germany and Italy?



Shoot...sorry for misspelling "declare" in the thread title...
 
The weapons,l at least, will still reach Europe, at least the good parts. Lend Lease would have continued, unless there was some change in American government. Roosevelt wouldn't have changed his mind. IMO
 
America would probably declare war on Germany on a slightly later date due to the policies of the Roosevelt administration the atrocities committed by unrestricted German submarine warfare.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
America would probably declare war on Germany on a slightly later date due to the policies of the Roosevelt administration the atrocities committed by unrestricted German submarine warfare.

This is assuming the German's continue such.

WI the Germans turn on the Japanese? How would Roosevelt deal with Hitler offering to join the US against Japan?

(I know it seems ASB but it's not really beyond possibility. Hitler turned on Russia, and the Japanese were not all that Aryan in the final analysis. What if his strategy was to divide the US from the UK, so as to defeat them both in detail later.)
 
This is assuming the German's continue such.

WI the Germans turn on the Japanese? How would Roosevelt deal with Hitler offering to join the US against Japan?

(I know it seems ASB but it's not really beyond possibility. Hitler turned on Russia, and the Japanese were not all that Aryan in the final analysis. What if his strategy was to divide the US from the UK, so as to defeat them both in detail later.)

now that's a very cool idea :)
 

Redbeard

Banned
So, if the other Axis powers do not declare war on the USA after Pearl Harbor...what changes?

Does America fight a separate war with the Allies against Japan's empire and NOT attack Germany and Italy?



Shoot...sorry for misspelling "declare" in the thread title...

The policy in the Atlantic prior to PH appear to have had escalation as a primary goal, and I guess USA would have declared war somewhen in 1942 after enough "incidents" with Germans U-Boats had been generated - all in all almost a repeat of the events leading to the US declaration of war in WWI.

But without a German declaration of war it will be more difficult to give the European war priority like in OTL, that might have the Soviets end the war at the Rhine or the Channel.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
Yes, that's the point... Hitler declared war so his subs could target ships with L-L weapons, and he still hoped that Stalingrad / Caucasus would succeed, so he could defeat Russia and defend successfully against the western Allies in fortress Europe.
 
Makes you wonder how high up on the "blunder scale" you rank Hitler's decision to involve the USA (at that moment) in the war.

I mean, assuming the USA would declare war anyway at some point how much would an extra year without U.S. involvement (directly) have helped Germany?

Does that push back D-Day a year? The Italian campaign? Does the Manhattan Project proceed any more slowly?

And then there's the whole unconditional surrender issue. I wonder if that would have been affected if we instead declared war on Germany over, say, submarine atrocities? Does that make an WW1-style armistice outcome (at least in Europe) any more acceptable?
 
German troups would have stayed longer in Africa.

Otherwise I guess I wouldn't make much of a difference...

There wouldn't be a peace between Germany and the USA like there was between the Soviet Union and Japan till 1945.
 

Xen

Banned
I done something like this in a timeline, Roosevelt addressed Congress in December of 1941, and asked for a declaration of war against Germany. He got one, but it was very narrowly approved, the situation in Russia was far more grim than OTL (which is why Hitler didn't declare war on the USA), fearing for Britain if Russia fell the US entered the conflict in Europe, with a Europe first strategy (as I said Russia was faring worse), this didnt set well with the American people, and he almost lost in 1944, but managed to squeak past Robert Taft. The stress of the election sent FDR to his grave all the sooner, just five days after being sworn in Roosevelt dies working at his desk in the White House.

This is the timeline I was working on, and rebuffing a bit, cleaning it up when I got hit with a load that bummed me out.
 
I think it would make little difference. If you consider that Bush got us to invade Iraq based upon 9-11, two years AFTER the fact, it would have been easy to take advantage of the outrage of Pearl Harbor to declare war on Japan AND her allies.
 
Oh I totally agree that WHENEVER war was declared against Germany and Italy, Peal Harbor would somehow be brought up and referenced (and wouldn't you fire your presidential speechwriter if they negelected to mention it? haha...)
 
I think it would make little difference. If you consider that Bush got us to invade Iraq based upon 9-11, two years AFTER the fact, it would have been easy to take advantage of the outrage of Pearl Harbor to declare war on Japan AND her allies.

Except that, did the U.S. declare against oall of the Central Powers in World War ?:confused:

Welcome back, by the way.
 
Wow...you know, it never occurred to me whether the U.S. declared war against the other central powers or not. I mean, we fought no battles against Austro-Hungarians OR Turks in that war.

Talk about "Alternative History"...Americans fighting Ottoman Turk forces in WW1 sure would qualify!
 
America’s policy of insisting on neutral rights while also trying to broker a peace resulted in tensions with both Berlin and London. When a German U-boat sank the Lusitania in 1915, a large passenger liner with 128 Americans aboard, Wilson vowed "America was too proud to fight," and demanded an end to attacks on passenger ships. Germany complied. Wilson tried to mediate a compromise settlement; yet no compromise was discovered. Wilson also repeatedly warned that America would not tolerate unrestricted submarine warfare because it violated America's rights. Wilson was under great pressure from former president Teddy Roosevelt, who denounced German "piracy" and Wilson's cowardice. In January 1917 the Germans announced they would resume unrestricted submarine warfare. Berlin's proposal to Mexico to join the war as Germany's ally against the U.S. was exposed in February, angering American opinion. (see Zimmermann Telegram). After German submarines attacked several American merchant ships, sinking three, Wilson requested that Congress declare war on Germany, which it did on April 6, 1917.[11] The U.S. House of Representatives approved the war resolution 373-50, the U.S. Senate 82-6, with opposition coming especially from German American districts such as Wisconsin. The U.S. declared war on Austria-Hungary in December 1917.

The United States was never formally a member of the Allies but an “Associated Power”. Significant numbers of fresh American troops arrived in Europe in the summer of 1918, and they started arriving at 10,000 per day. Germany miscalculated that it would be many more months before large numbers of American troops could be sent to Europe, and that, in any event, the U-boat offensive would prevent their arrival. In fact, not a single American infantryman lost his life due to German U-boat activity.

The United States Navy sent a battleship group to Scapa Flow to join with the British Grand Fleet, several destroyers to Queenstown, Ireland, and several submarines to the Azores and to Bantry Bay, Ireland, to help guard convoys. Several regiments of U.S. Marines were also dispatched to France. However, it would be some time before the United States would be able to contribute significant personnel to the Western and Italian fronts.

Wiki says nothing about anyone but Germany and AH
the US evidently never went to war with Turkey or Bulguria.
Nor is there any mention of the Central powers declaring on the US
 
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