Yeah, I love the DBWI that was only a WI to them. There are alot of conclusions you can draw from their comments. Socialism in the US? A US that is buddy-buddy with Russia? The story looks really interesting right now.
What Goes Up Must Come Down: A Third Reich Cold War TL
- Thread starter Bookmark1995
- Start date
Bookmark1995
Banned
I just hope I'm revealing enough that I draw people's attention, but not to much that I destroy any dramatic tension when certain events come up.
*****
The DBWI was inspired by Reds, the story where America undergoes a somewhat-benevolent, mostly-genuine communist revolution. (I am a contributor to their fanfic thread). On the Reds thread are people in-universe commenting on their own historical events on their own AH.com.
It is not only interesting to see how the course of history can be changed, but it is also interesting to explore how those alt-events influence the way people in that world think. Like us, they have their own preconceived notions about how things are, but they also like to explore how things could have been different.
OTL, it is hard for us to imagine a world where America and Russia aren't enemies, a world where America is socialist, or a world where Jews could have settled in Africa. ITTL, people can't imagine a world where Russia and America aren't friends (or to be more specific, allies that still have major disputes over policy-Russia is the ITTL De Gaulle), or an America that isn't leftist, or that Jews couldn't have potentially settled in Africa.
But like us, they can see how history could have veered off in a thousand different directions.
What type of "socialist" is America? Is it the Nordic model (market economy with large welfare state), or is it legit socialist (USSR, Venezuela, Cuba etc.)?
Neither of those are socialist. (I will stop this discussion if it's against the rules.)
Worker Owned Means of Production which neither "the Nordic Model" (Social Democracy) or the USSR (State Capitalism) is. Co-ops, Luxemburgism, Mutualism, Syndicalism, etc. these systems are Socialist because in each of them the workers owns the means of production, I wouldn't call any of them utopian.
What I’m more curious about is if the US is fully socialist (presumably more in the Reds! sense) or if they just have a large socialist party while there are still conservative, liberal, libertarian and/or centrist political parties operating successfully as well.
Bookmark1995
Banned
This will certainly not be a copy-paste of the UASR.
But what is considered to be politically normal and acceptable will be very different from OTL.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I'm preparing for graduate school. Once everything is sorted out, I'll be back.
In the meantime, please don't bump.
Part I: Road to Germania (1933-1942): Chapter 2-When Braces Changed History
Bookmark1995
Banned
Sorry for the long absence.
Anyways, here is a new update, which dissects the POD a bit more.
Excerpt From Transcript of Final 24 [1] Season 1 Episode 4: Franklin Roosevelt
March 10, 2001
(Shot of a countdown clock (starting from 24 Hours), cutting to a shot of the Miami coast)
Narrator: Miami, Florida, February 14, 1933. 5 PM
Narrator: For weeks, FDR suffered enormous pain and fever. He needed catheters and enema to pass waste. He was almost near death.
Steve Miller (Historian): The need for a wheelchair would prove disadvantageous to any person, for someone trying to build a political career, the loss of walking was a serious blow.
(Cut to SARA DELANO and ELEANOR arguing)
Sara Delano: He's a cripple. He is not meant to be in the public life.
Eleanor Roosevelt: It isn't right to lock him away. He needs to be out there.
Steve Miller (Historian): But while most people would be deterred, Franklin Roosevelt would not.
(Montage of FDR trying numerous therapies and practicing exercise)
Narrator: Despite numerous regiments and treatments, FDR would never regain the ability to walk. He however, created a brilliant, if stressful regiment, that could trick people into believing he could walk.
(Cut to ARTHUR PRETTYMAN putting leg braces on FDR's legs)
Narrator: Prettyman would attach braces to Roosevelt's legs, locking them tight so they wouldn't bend. Then Prettyman would put on FDR's shoes, and then FDR's pants would be putting over shoes and braces, and then pulled to his waist.
Steve Miller (Historian): FDR would hold onto the arms of someone using one hand, and then use a cane in another hand. The person holding his arm, normally FDR's son James, would move, and using his upper torso, FDR would push himself forward. He would do this while wearing heavy iron braces. Nothing, in my opinion, demonstrates the clear extent of FDR's willpower then this painful routine.
(Shot of countdown clock countdown from 1 hour)
FDR: I want to stand from the car.
Louis Howe: Mr. President, are you sure-
FDR: The people have to see me as a strong figure.
Narrator: Roosevelt, in an attempt to maintain the spotlight, would make the most fatal decision of his career.
(Cut to countdown clock, starting from a half hour)
FDR in Bay Front Park, surrounded by a large crowd of 20,000 people.
Narrator: FDR, his aids propping him up, force himself to stand from the backseat of the car.
(In the crowd, an unnoticed Zangara stood on a chair, preparing to aim his gun)
Narrator: By standing, FDR has given the short Zangara a clear shot. At 5:03 PM, the first bullet is fired striking FDR in the shoulder. FDR doesn't feel anything, but does hear the gunshot. Due to his braces, however, he is unable to duck. Zangara fires the second bullet, which strikes FDR in the stomach.
(Cut to a crowd tackling Zangara, and FDR collapsing onto the backseat)
Anyways, here is a new update, which dissects the POD a bit more.
Excerpt From Transcript of Final 24 [1] Season 1 Episode 4: Franklin Roosevelt
March 10, 2001
(Shot of a countdown clock (starting from 24 Hours), cutting to a shot of the Miami coast)
Narrator: Miami, Florida, February 14, 1933. 5 PM
(Shot of FDR sitting on a yacht, and chatting with LOUIS HOWE).
Narrator: President-elect FDR is preparing to make an address to the people of Miami, Florida. But in just 24 hours, he'll be dead.
(Shot of Giuseppe Zangara, loading his gun, glaring at a post of FDR)
(Cut back to FDR)
Narrator: In less then a month, FDR will soon become the most powerful man in America. And in order to do so, he has to overcome many obstacles. Most of them physical.
(Cut to the doctor putting braces on FDR's legs)
(Flashback to 1920, FDR and JAMES COX campaigning)
Narrator: Born into a life of privilege and name recognition, no man was better prepared to enter a life of politics then Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Excerpts from Harold Roberts,
FDR: The Would Have Been Giant, (New York: Arcade Publishing, 1991)
Despite his crushing defeat in the 1920 election as James Cox's running mate, Roosevelt would not be deterred. FDR long expected that the Democrats fortunes could be small until a major economic depression hit the United States.
FDR took a lucrative position at Fidelity & Deposit Company, one of largest bonding companies in the country. But despite his private sector work, he continued an active public life in order to maintain his political connections and to lay the groundwork for a 1922 Senate Race. He became a member of the executive committee of the National Civic Federation, the Near East Relief Committee, the Woodrow Wilson Foundation, and the Seamen’s Church Institute [1]. But it would be his chairmanship Greater New York Committee of the Boy Scouts of America that would prove to be the consequential of his life.
In July 1921, he paid a visit to a boy scout meeting at Bear Mountain State Park as an act of publicity. It was there that he would contract the disease that would transform his life forever.
Excerpt From Transcript of Final 24 Season 1 Episode 4: Franklin Roosevelt
(Shot of FDR lying in agony, while ELEANOR and LOUIS HOWE rub his legs)Narrator: President-elect FDR is preparing to make an address to the people of Miami, Florida. But in just 24 hours, he'll be dead.
(Shot of Giuseppe Zangara, loading his gun, glaring at a post of FDR)
(Cut back to FDR)
Narrator: In less then a month, FDR will soon become the most powerful man in America. And in order to do so, he has to overcome many obstacles. Most of them physical.
(Cut to the doctor putting braces on FDR's legs)
(Flashback to 1920, FDR and JAMES COX campaigning)
Narrator: Born into a life of privilege and name recognition, no man was better prepared to enter a life of politics then Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Excerpts from Harold Roberts,
FDR: The Would Have Been Giant, (New York: Arcade Publishing, 1991)
Despite his crushing defeat in the 1920 election as James Cox's running mate, Roosevelt would not be deterred. FDR long expected that the Democrats fortunes could be small until a major economic depression hit the United States.
FDR took a lucrative position at Fidelity & Deposit Company, one of largest bonding companies in the country. But despite his private sector work, he continued an active public life in order to maintain his political connections and to lay the groundwork for a 1922 Senate Race. He became a member of the executive committee of the National Civic Federation, the Near East Relief Committee, the Woodrow Wilson Foundation, and the Seamen’s Church Institute [1]. But it would be his chairmanship Greater New York Committee of the Boy Scouts of America that would prove to be the consequential of his life.
In July 1921, he paid a visit to a boy scout meeting at Bear Mountain State Park as an act of publicity. It was there that he would contract the disease that would transform his life forever.
Excerpt From Transcript of Final 24 Season 1 Episode 4: Franklin Roosevelt
Narrator: For weeks, FDR suffered enormous pain and fever. He needed catheters and enema to pass waste. He was almost near death.
Steve Miller (Historian): The need for a wheelchair would prove disadvantageous to any person, for someone trying to build a political career, the loss of walking was a serious blow.
(Cut to SARA DELANO and ELEANOR arguing)
Sara Delano: He's a cripple. He is not meant to be in the public life.
Eleanor Roosevelt: It isn't right to lock him away. He needs to be out there.
Steve Miller (Historian): But while most people would be deterred, Franklin Roosevelt would not.
(Montage of FDR trying numerous therapies and practicing exercise)
Narrator: Despite numerous regiments and treatments, FDR would never regain the ability to walk. He however, created a brilliant, if stressful regiment, that could trick people into believing he could walk.
(Cut to ARTHUR PRETTYMAN putting leg braces on FDR's legs)
Narrator: Prettyman would attach braces to Roosevelt's legs, locking them tight so they wouldn't bend. Then Prettyman would put on FDR's shoes, and then FDR's pants would be putting over shoes and braces, and then pulled to his waist.
Steve Miller (Historian): FDR would hold onto the arms of someone using one hand, and then use a cane in another hand. The person holding his arm, normally FDR's son James, would move, and using his upper torso, FDR would push himself forward. He would do this while wearing heavy iron braces. Nothing, in my opinion, demonstrates the clear extent of FDR's willpower then this painful routine.
(Shot of countdown clock countdown from 1 hour)
FDR: I want to stand from the car.
Louis Howe: Mr. President, are you sure-
FDR: The people have to see me as a strong figure.
Narrator: Roosevelt, in an attempt to maintain the spotlight, would make the most fatal decision of his career.
(Cut to countdown clock, starting from a half hour)
FDR in Bay Front Park, surrounded by a large crowd of 20,000 people.
Narrator: FDR, his aids propping him up, force himself to stand from the backseat of the car.
(In the crowd, an unnoticed Zangara stood on a chair, preparing to aim his gun)
Narrator: By standing, FDR has given the short Zangara a clear shot. At 5:03 PM, the first bullet is fired striking FDR in the shoulder. FDR doesn't feel anything, but does hear the gunshot. Due to his braces, however, he is unable to duck. Zangara fires the second bullet, which strikes FDR in the stomach.
(Cut to a crowd tackling Zangara, and FDR collapsing onto the backseat)
Excerpts from Harold Roberts,
FDR: The Would Have Been Giant, (New York: Arcade Publishing, 1991)
FDR: The Would Have Been Giant, (New York: Arcade Publishing, 1991)
En route to the hospital, Anton Cermak, with tears in his eyes, told FDR ,"it should have been me, not you." [2]
FDR, the warm smile on his face never wavering despite the agony to his body, said ,"No honor is greater than taking a bullet from you." FDR would be forever remembered as a man who would always fight for the good of others, even in his last dying breath. FDR, his stomach bleeding, and acids dripping through. He then lost consciousness, at the bullet wound caused his lungs to collapse, never to reawaken.
Excerpt From Transcript of Final 24 ,Season 1 Episode 4: Franklin Roosevelt
FDR, the warm smile on his face never wavering despite the agony to his body, said ,"No honor is greater than taking a bullet from you." FDR would be forever remembered as a man who would always fight for the good of others, even in his last dying breath. FDR, his stomach bleeding, and acids dripping through. He then lost consciousness, at the bullet wound caused his lungs to collapse, never to reawaken.
Excerpt From Transcript of Final 24 ,Season 1 Episode 4: Franklin Roosevelt
(Cut to a countdown clock hitting zero, doctors operating on FDR)
Narrator: Despite the work his doctors, they would not revive him. FDR died at 5:30 PM, on February 15, 1933.
(Cut to a shot of FDR's statue, in Roosevelt Park, Miami)
Excerpt from James Laramie, Cactus Jack: The Life Of President Garner (Austin: Lone Star Press, 1998)
Vice President-elect Garner arrived at the White House, having only a vague understanding that something serious had occurred. When he arrived, he was met by a stoic would be First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt, several cabinet members, outgoing President Herbert Hoover, and Chief Justice Charles Evan Hughes, who were in varying degrees of shock and sadness.
"What's happened," John Nance Garner said, seeing the varying sad looks on people's faces.
"John," Eleanor told Garner, "the President's dead."
"Mrs. Roosevelt," Garner said in a sympathetic voice, taking the would be first lady's hands, "is there anything I can do for you?"
"Is there anything we can do for you?," Mrs, Roosevelt said, her voice betraying no sadness or pity, "for you are the one in trouble now." [3]
[1] This was an excerpt from the OTL book FDR, by Jean Edward Smith.
[2] Cermak allegedly told FDR, after being shot, "I'm glad it was me, not you."
[3] This was based of how Harry Truman learned about FDR's death, with OTL Roosevelt having told him those exact words.
Narrator: Despite the work his doctors, they would not revive him. FDR died at 5:30 PM, on February 15, 1933.
(Cut to a shot of FDR's statue, in Roosevelt Park, Miami)
Excerpt from James Laramie, Cactus Jack: The Life Of President Garner (Austin: Lone Star Press, 1998)
Vice President-elect Garner arrived at the White House, having only a vague understanding that something serious had occurred. When he arrived, he was met by a stoic would be First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt, several cabinet members, outgoing President Herbert Hoover, and Chief Justice Charles Evan Hughes, who were in varying degrees of shock and sadness.
"What's happened," John Nance Garner said, seeing the varying sad looks on people's faces.
"John," Eleanor told Garner, "the President's dead."
"Mrs. Roosevelt," Garner said in a sympathetic voice, taking the would be first lady's hands, "is there anything I can do for you?"
"Is there anything we can do for you?," Mrs, Roosevelt said, her voice betraying no sadness or pity, "for you are the one in trouble now." [3]
[1] This was an excerpt from the OTL book FDR, by Jean Edward Smith.
[2] Cermak allegedly told FDR, after being shot, "I'm glad it was me, not you."
[3] This was based of how Harry Truman learned about FDR's death, with OTL Roosevelt having told him those exact words.
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Bookmark1995
Banned
But in all serious, I'm pleased to see that my work managed to bring out a reaction.
ITTL, FDR's assassination will be one of those big "what ifs," if only because of how...well painful things are going to get for quite some time. Many, many people will wonder if he could have stopped, or at least mitigated, some of that pain.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
Wasn't Garner actually in favor of most of FDR's new deal reforms? It was mostly what FDR pushed after the 36 election that he was mainly against IIRC hence part of why he was dropped for Wallace in 1940. Sure the US won't recover as fast but it shouldn't be anywhere as bad as people seem to think it'd be if FDR was killed. The real butterflies should go around the 1940 election because I don't see "Cactus" Jack running for a 3rd term. Meaning whoever follows him is probably an isolationist which means no move to Pearl for the US fleet. However Japan still needs resources and a Southern Strike is the best way to get it so they and the US were going to come to blows at some point. Assuming the US Public stays behind the war long enough Japan will eventually be ground down.