What German napkinwaffe was actually feasible?

NoMommsen

Donor
Jack Northrop found that jet flying wings without fly by wire and computers had stability issues
Jack Northop found that Jack-Northop-designed flying wings - may they be jet-driven or propeller-driven - had stability issues.

Dozens if not a couple of hundred pilots who flew Horton designs of that era and not only the Ho IX or 229 as well as its un-engined V1 test-glider but also their numerous competition gliders - motoriized or not - or the Ho VII training plane i.e. might tell ... told a somewhat different story.

The necessity of fly-by-wire of the actually build US-planes was caused rather by their unareodynaically forming due to oh soo hyped stealth-tech.
... aside of Northop NOT being the one and only areodynamical pope and the often not-made-invented-here attitude of so many defenders of this thesis.
 
Dozens if not a couple of hundred pilots who flew Horton designs of that era and not only the Ho IX or 229 as well as its un-engined V1 test-glider but also their numerous competition gliders - motoriized or not - or the Ho VII training plane i.e. might tell ... told a somewhat different story.
Gliders aren't the same as something that has to be a stable platform for bombing and as a gun platform, while having engines that were constantly having variations in thrust, and gets much difficult with CoG changes as fuel is burned and ordnance expended.

All the other aircraft designers in the worlds were not stupid, if flying wings were the answer, there would have been more of them.
Great ideas spread fast. Designers love to copy what works
The necessity of fly-by-wire of the actually build US-planes was caused rather by their unareodynaically forming due to oh soo hyped stealth-tech.
XB-49 was far less stable after jets replaced the contrarotating props. If it couldn't bomb from yawing issues, it didn't matter that Radar return was less
 
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NoMommsen

Donor
... while having engines that were constantly having variations in thrust, and gets much difficult with CoG changes as fuel is burned and ordnance expended.
CoG-problems are as old as planes trying to conquer the skies. Same problems you describe are apparent in truly each and every plane up there. ... really nothing special ... and as said : there were motorized Horten planes as well ... even before the jet-engines ;-)
All the other aircraft designers in the worlds were not stupid, if flying wings were the answer, there would have been more of them.
Great ideas spread fast. Designers love to copy what works
... if it's easy enough to copy ... what flying wing designing isn't. (...never claimed btw.)
It has - as every design - its to's and fro's. ... and sometimes to reveal the 'too's' is simply not simple.
...
XB-49 ...
Northop design by Northop design considerations ... unfortunatly he somehow didn't manage to wrap his head around the flying wing problems similar in result as others have ...
 
Of the napkin German AFV's the Kätzchen APC would almost certainly of worked fine and been a useful though not war changing addition to the Panzer Divisions. All the Heavy and Super Heavy tanks would have been disasters, the automotive technology to make a 100 ton vehicle work just wasn't there.
 
really nothing special
CoG issues are magnified in flying wings, there's no getting around that. Stabilization gear takes load off of the pilot FBW just takes all the load off, so its no longer the Pilot
trying to pilot a unicycle. Reflex and wingtip design is just a basic bandaid to that, you need a very active autopilot, one that's faster than a human can act
 
Most of those Napkinkwaffen were just insane and waste of money and time
Also V2 and V3 program were waste of time money and resources

The Production of V2 cost more human life as it's use and suck up the last reserve the Third Reich.
until February 1945 they had to stop production of lack of material..

The V3* Gun needed gigantic large infrastructure, that RAF bomb it back in stone age during it's Construction
(* it is unclear if this gun was so-posed to be label V3, most literature say yes, but Goebbels never mention V3)

Had they instead of Napkinwaffen, invested running projects things could look different.
Early mass production of StG 44 and 45 Automatic rifle
Mass production of a simplified version of Panter Tank as Main Combat tank and Tank destroyer
Introduktion of Kätzchen APC for Infanterie support
The Me 262 as pure Fighter and interceptor
The Ar 234 as fast jet bomber
Build the He 177 as traditionell four engine heavy Bomber, instead as a crap dive bomber.

But this here is just prolongation of suffering, see the main problem was not lack of those weapons.
It was Hitler crank idea to see this war as ideological, while his generals made allot mistake, were top by Hitler insane orders base on his ideological.
and litte fact to invade a enemy with superior man power and declare War on Enemy with superior industrial capacity and man power.
All those superior weapons are useless, if the Wehrmacht has to fight predominance, of one Soldier against 4 to 6 enemies...
 
Mass production of a simplified version of Panter Tank as Main Combat tank and Tank destroyer
In regards to a simplified Panther the OTL VK3002 DB design with a PzIV turret and L48 75mm gun would have been entirely sufficient and desirable, as most kills happened within 1000m anyway, which was well within the effective range of the L48 75mm cannon. Supplement with Nashorn TDs to increase stand off range if needed. They'd have a 35 ton tank that was easier to make, reliable, within the weight limits of it's parts design, and fully effective at normal combat ranges. Eventually it could be upgraded as needed with say a 88mm gun, but something shorter and less powerful than the L56 Tiger version.
 
the automotive technology to make a 100 ton vehicle work just wasn't there.
The USA was close with the T28, then decided on a tiny engine, with less HP than the 60 ton M6 had in 1941.

Big powerplants in the US, most used in the Sherman in the longer M4A4 hull for testing
the A-65 1568 cubic inch V-12 SOHC from Chrysler, 650HP@2600rpm 1458 ft.lb. at 1600rpm

V-12 Hall-Scott 2181 cubic inches 575HP @ 2100 RPM, 1500 torque lb. ft

EMD V8-184 1470 cubic inche, two stroke diesel, uniflow 600HP@1800rpm torque 1910 ft.lbs at 1000rpm

and the Ford GAC the V-12 version of the GAA V-8, 770hp@2700rpm

But nope, put the Gaa 425 HP unit in for test, and then act surprised that the Power to Weight ratio is horrible
 
During WW2 what German napkinwaffe and other German weaponry/technology that was built in small numbers or never built at all IOTL was actually feasible and would have been effective in practice (assuming Germany defeated the USSR and made peace with the WAllies)?
The Uranprojekt really comes to my mind as the only weapon which could have turned the tide against Germany's many stronger foes.
With a POD in 1939 or 1940 at the latest, the German scientists working on the atomic bomb might get the amount of materials for the bomb right (they drastically overestimated it in OTL, which is why the project wasn't funded more extensively), and Hitler might give priority to that project. Having nuclear weapons might come in pretty handy for Germany in '44 or' 45.
 
The Uranprojekt really comes to my mind as the only weapon which could have turned the tide against Germany's many stronger foes.
With a POD in 1939 or 1940 at the latest, the German scientists working on the atomic bomb might get the amount of materials for the bomb right (they drastically overestimated it in OTL, which is why the project wasn't funded more extensively), and Hitler might give priority to that project. Having nuclear weapons might come in pretty handy for Germany in '44 or' 45.
To earn Germany a couple extra sunrises of its own, perhaps. Otherwise 44-45 is entirely too late.
 
Well, the destruction of *insert German nuked city here* would be "offset" by the destruction of London and Moscow.
That would require them having a bomber capable of delivering it survive to deliver it. Moscow at least is out of range for anything they have in service beyond a handful of prototypes, which would not be used for a number of reasons, London is more than likely to fail, as a majority of bombers during Steinbock dropped their loads far before reaching their acquired target, if they made it across the channel at all. It's possible, but well under 50% for them to hit London, and that requires modifying the HE-177 work out in a timely manner and the bombs to be ready in the first half of '44, after that point ability to hit London starts rapidly declining
 
While not exactly “napkinwaffe”, a couple of years ago I suggested the premise that the Fi-103 (aka V-1), was available and ready to deploy just before the Fall of France, and used during the BoB. AFAIK, there were no technological reasons to prohibit an introduction a few years earlier.

ric350
 
While not exactly “napkinwaffe”, a couple of years ago I suggested the premise that the Fi-103 (aka V-1), was available and ready to deploy just before the Fall of France, and used during the BoB. AFAIK, there were no technological reasons to prohibit an introduction a few years earlier.

ric350
Wasn't the V-1 engine not ready until 1941?
 
The E-Series tanks are definitely valuable, the E-50 and E-75 anyway. They would have been easier to produce then the Panthers and Tigers with a little more mechanical reliability. They didn't have to be to mechanically reliable because they would not survive that long with the rate of attrition.
The E-50 would have made a good main battle tank for the Germans the E-75 would be a suicidal roadblock.
Just put it in the middle of the road and have it keep shooting until it dies. Because it is not fast enough to retreat.
 
German surface-to-air missiles would not be viable.
The Allies were not just ahead and radar they were ahead in electronic countermeasures. That would make them a waste of resources for very little gain.
 
Of the napkin German AFV's the Kätzchen APC would almost certainly of worked fine and been a useful though not war changing addition to the Panzer Divisions. All the Heavy and Super Heavy tanks would have been disasters, the automotive technology to make a 100 ton vehicle work just wasn't there.
The super heavy tanks might be feasible with a big enough tow truck. Just tow them to an area and let them keep shooting until they run out of ammunition.
 
Wasn't the V-1 engine not ready until 1941?
It's surprising that pulse-jets didn't show sooner, they really are simple.
someone clever could have done valveless, as soon as welding stainless steel can be done

Hiller-Lockwood Model HH 5.25-7Valveless Engine
Military max thrust (lbs) .... 300
Maximum continuous (lbs) ..... 280
Minimum idle (lbs) ........... 30
Idle to mil. max time (secs).. 0.1
Fuel/thrust (lb/lb/hr) ...... 0.85
Dry weight (lbs) ............. 30


But very loud

Here, a juvenile use
 
It was Hitler crank idea to see this war as ideological, while his generals made allot mistake, were top by Hitler insane orders base on his ideological.
and litte fact to invade a enemy with superior man power and declare War on Enemy with superior industrial capacity and man power.
The invasion of the Soviet Union was widely supported by Hitler's generals, who widely embraced the ideological and political reasons for it. Nazism actively guided how the war was conducted… The treatment of POW's, for instance, they condoned.
 
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