What else would the Nazis have banned?

[Emperor Norton I]

Other than Ayn Rand being a Russian, wouldn't her philosophies and empathisis on might makes right go well with Fascism?

I doubt they would allow it, because it is individualistic, which doesn't fit with fascism. However, Objectivism is weird. Ayn Rand's philosophy is essentially sideways Communism. In simplest terms, it believes the lies Communism told about itself are actually true: that it is actually the voice of the people, working for the interest of the masses, that it is altruistic and egalitarian and democratic. But Communism is bad, so all that must be bad. And it believes what Communism says about Capitalism is true, and takes that strawman figment's side, and says it is actually good: greed and selfishness and exploitation and lack of empathy are all good. Value and worthiness only exist in monetary terms, including people. Where it fits in the world will always be odd.

 

[Miss Teri]

Other than Ayn Rand being a Russian, wouldn't her philosophies and empathisis on might makes right go well with Fascism?

Yes, but the fact that she was born Jewish automatically bans her from Germany

 

[Whitewings]

Do you have any source? I am a great fan of swing, and I know many german swing songs from the late 30s to late 40s, like this one

Some further research indicates swing wasn't banned per se, merely "disapproved of" by the higher-ups. But I could easily see the disapproval evolving into an outright ban in a victorious Nazi Germany, given that such regimes tend to become more repressive over time, not less.

Don't forget Early Disney was based off GERMAN fairy tales, go ahead and try to name a major Disney movie before 1945 that wasn't based off a German fairy tale. (excluding Dumbo)

Challenge accepted! Pinocchio, based on a late 19th century Italian magazine serial. Fantasia, based on music from multiple countries. Bambi, based on an Austrian novel published in 1923. Saludos Amigos, a package film from 1942 that was created by the studio. Victory Through Air Power, from the book of the same name. Those are all the Disney feature films between 1940 and 1945. Not one is based on a German fairy tale; the next fairy tale adaptation is of "Jack and the Beanstalk" in Fun and Fancy Free, 1947.

 

[Sasalele]

Some further research indicates swing wasn't banned per se, merely "disapproved of" by the higher-ups. But I could easily see the disapproval evolving into an outright ban in a victorious Nazi Germany, given that such regimes tend to become more repressive over time, not less.

Challenge accepted! Pinocchio, based on a late 19th century Italian magazine serial. Fantasia, based on music from multiple countries. Bambi, based on an Austrian novel published in 1923. Saludos Amigos, a package film from 1942 that was created by the studio. Victory Through Air Power, from the book of the same name. Those are all the Disney feature films between 1940 and 1945. Not one is based on a German fairy tale; the next fairy tale adaptation is of "Jack and the Beanstalk" in Fun and Fancy Free, 1947.

Well Pinocchio is Italian, so it's still got a chance... and it's not overtly political. Bambi is Austrian, so it's German-ish, though I think but am not sure that the novel WAS banned because it was viewed as pacifist. Also given the war years, of course Disney would've changed it's movies to be more patriotic. I think that The Nazis would have kept most of Disney movies with a few exceptions, but I think what's most likely is heavy redaction for movies like Fantasia (I.E. taking out music by any non-Germanic composers.) The Nazi Government would love Fantasia do to the classical music in it.

 

[NoMommsen]

A couple of years ago I was planning a novel set in a world with a victorious Nazi Germany (very original...) with the main character being an American woman who travels to Axis Europe in 1951. On the Berlin main airport she sees a sign with a list of books that are prohibited in Nazi Germany. I think I included at least Simone de Beauvoir, George Orwell and Ayn Rand on the list, along with people whose books actually had such a ban, such as Stefan Zweig and Thomas Mann.

This minor detail happened to pop into my mind again today and I decided to present it here. Would the Nazis ban, say, Robert Heinlein? Isaac Asimov? C.S. Lewis?

How long after the Nazi victory ?

Also : how long would have Hitler survived in yout ATL ?

IMO this two questions are important to determine possible cultural developments of a post-war Nazi-Germany.
About jewish/communist/sicialist/leftish authors, ... or generally authors not 'in-line' with tzhe regime (whatever nationality or ethnic/cultural/religious background) I would agree with what others have said.

About music :
Here time and taste of the actual 'Führer' would be of great importance. Maybe 'heir' to the Führer has a like to Jazz ?
However, I'm quite confident, that the germans would develop something similar out of their 'Schlager' music ('aryan' versions of comedian harmonists i.e.). Give their 'Marschmusik' and their songs for the pilots/tankdrivers/sub-seamen etc. a bit faster beat ... German Rock

Tobacco, alcohol, meat ... not possible to ban, if you want to keep the populace happy at that time. maybe restricting (what would do much good to general health as well as more efficient use of agricultural land), yes, but not banning (otherwise, you would have to put at least every bavarian into KZ for his "Weißwurscht" ... hmmm, thinking of ....).

 

[overoceans]

re: Ayn Rand...

I am going to come down on the side of saying that, even without her Jewish ancestry, she gets banned, or at least seriously Nazified, if they found some reasons to keep her ideas around.

First off, and I don't mean to sound like one of those libertarians who say that any concept of a collective-good is equivalent to fascism, but, well, fascism DOES only work on a philosophiocal level if you have a concept of a collective.

Even something as vulgar as "Interracial sex is bad because It leads to the degeneration of the species" requires that you care about what happens to the rest of the species to begin with. But the logic of libertarianism leads to "Well, even if my mongrelized kids do lower the collective IQ, who cares, I wanna have sex with my non-white girlfriend, and that's no one's business but my own". Ayn Rand even has a couple of passages in her books which denounce racism, as "the lowest form of collectivism", If nothing else, that would get her on the Nazi's radar, since unlike today's dog-whistle artists, the Nazis openly extolled the virtues of racism, by name.

 

[overoceans]

It would be interesting to see what would happen to Carl Jung in this scenario. As is well known, he was involved in a few organizations that were not exactly scrupulous about cutting their allegiances with Nazism. And his fascination with myhology and the occult would have sat well with certain segments of the Nazi Party.

On the other hand, I don't really imagine pscyoanalysis generally as being something the Nazis would be too keen on, partly because of it's connection with Jewish intellectuals, but also(and here I'm speculating a bit) but they'd probably see it as somewhat too focussed on the sordid aspects of life. Though I suppose Jungianism is the branch of psychoanalysis least open to that charge, and could easily spin itself as a bedrock of "healthy" spiritualiity, venerating aspects of the traditional culture.

Though if the Christian churches enjoyed any sort of renewed accomadation under the Nazis(and this could be a whole thread unto itself) they might want Jung tossed out for his interest in pagan motifs, and the Nazis might grant it to them.

 

[Garbageman]

Instead of Nazifying popular works, would the Nazi's just produce homegrown, politically correct knockoffs?

 

[Miss Teri]

Oh, most American comics ( produced by Jewish creators for largely Jewish owned companies) would be banned. Remember, Gobbels called Superman "Superjew".

 

[Michel Van]

Instead of Nazifying popular works, would the Nazi's just produce homegrown, politically correct knockoffs?

If you mean conform to "Mein Kampf" i'm afraid the answer is yes

On question how long Hitler will survive after WW2 ? Not Long
He was sick showing symptom of Parkinson so it's quite possible that he died in 1950
What let to biggest funerals ever in History, follow of battle who becomes next Führer ?
the Top of NSDAP will murder each other to become the New Führer, hint biggest funerals ever...

One Note on Hitler and Disney
Hitler was Cinema maniac he look one movie a day in his private Theater
he and Goebbels watch allot Disney movies and Mikey Mouse short films
They wanted to put disney movies for German distribution but the War prevent that
and in mean time Disney produce 5 Anti Nazi propaganda short films for USA distribution
One of them was infamous "Education for Death: the Making of the Nazi"

By the way
Hitler has view Chaplin "The Great Dictator" according last surviving adjutant, he ROTFL
While the Movie was forbid in Third Reich, showing and viewing were put under death penalty...

 

[Kevin R.]

If we're talking about a victorious Nazi Germany, then we're also talking about a very different Cold War and, by extension, a very different American pop culture in the late '40s and '50s. I can see the Hollywood Blacklist being butterflied, for one thing, with outspoken leftists and "premature anti-fascists" (people like Charlie Chaplin who critiqued fascism before the war broke out) not being run out of their jobs, and American society being more open to democratic socialists in politics, culture, and academia. It would not strike me as ASB for TTL's Hollywood to make, for instance, an epic war movie about the Spanish Civil War, with American volunteers for the Republican side as the protagonists.

In such an environment, I think that the Nazis would take a general attitude of putting a blanket ban on just about all American cultural products, with only a select few exemptions. (TTL's version of Johnny Rebel, the white supremacist country singer in the '60s, might find an appreciation in Nazi Germany, promoted as a symbol of resistance against the "Judeo-Negro-Bolshevik" American leadership.)

 

[overoceans]

Oh, most American comics ( produced by Jewish creators for largely Jewish owned companies) would be banned. Remember, Gobbels called Superman "Superjew".

I'd be really interested to hear his rationale for that. As far as I can tell, the character of Superman doesn't really fit the traditional anti-semitic stereotypes, ie. he's vaguely militaristic, not particurlarly intellectual, and not really interested in money. And fighting for "the American Way" is about as non-cosmopolitan as it gets.

I read somewhere that Wertham, the anti-comics camapaigner who was actually a left-winger(and not a McCarthyite as is sometimes assumed), thought that Superman had fascist overtones. That makes a bit more sense to me than thinking of his as representing typical Jewish stereotypes.

It is true that the artists who created Superman were Jewish.

 

[Miss Teri]

I'd be really interested to hear his rationale for that. As far as I can tell, the character of Superman doesn't really fit the traditional anti-semitic stereotypes, ie. he's vaguely militaristic, not particurlarly intellectual, and not really interested in money. And fighting for "the American Way" is about as non-cosmopolitan as it gets.

I read somewhere that Wertham, the anti-comics camapaigner who was actually a left-winger(and not a McCarthyite as is sometimes assumed), thought that Superman had fascist overtones. That makes a bit more sense to me than thinking of his as representing typical Jewish stereotypes.

It is true that the artists who created Superman were Jewish.

Here's an attack from a German newspaper against Superman:http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/superman.htm
And something on the Jewish themes in Superman:

http://israel-commentary.org/?tag=j...his-hand-denounced-superman-as-a-jew-so-there

 

[overoceans]

Very interesting stuff. Thanks.

But that's a pretty strange article, even by Nazi standards. The writer pretty much admits that Superman embodies the kind of values that the Nazis liked, but seems to think he's gotta say bad stuff about him anyway, because he was a) created by Jews, and b) being utilized for allied propaganda.

Sorta like "Ah, shit, these guys are beating us at our own game. Guess I'll just yell about them being Jewish for a few paragraphs."

 

[Michel Van]

Sorta like "Ah, shit, these guys are beating us at our own game. Guess I'll just yell about them being Jewish for a few paragraphs."

Had to Hell would the nazi propaganda react, about the work of publisher Moe Goodman, comic author Stanley Martin Lieber and Artist Jacob Kurtzberg ?

 

[VictorLaszlo]

Do you have any source? I am a great fan of swing, and I know many german swing songs from the late 30s to late 40s, like this one

Nazi policy regarding Swing and Jazz was, to put it mildly, quite inconsistent. The production and distribution of Jazz and Swing records by German labels for distribution in Germany was discouraged while at the same time their sale abroad was not (many german jazz and swing afficionados would ask friends or relatives on occupation duty in Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium or France to buy as many of their favourite artist's disks as possible and either send them by mail or take them home during their next furlough) and some were even available in Germany proper (Duke Ellington and Count Basie being the most notable examples, apparently those in charge for approving the distribution at the Reichskulturkammer (RKK - Reich Chamber of Culture) really thought they were British aristocrats).

Playing certain tunes in public places like dance cafés, bars or night clubs could cause trouble for the owners (i.e. the outspoken threat of getting their licence withdrawn) or german musicians (being expelled from the RKK) while playing other swing and even jazz pieces was absolutely alright with even Goebbels stating that music in the advanced industrial age should reflect the new increased velocity of life and therefore couldn't and shouldn't sound like in times past and again non-german western bands had a good deal more leeway in what kind of music they could play even on tours in Germany proper. This kind of inconsistency would likely continue with new music styles after the war. The Bee Gees, Beatles, Beach Boys or Brian Adams might be O.K., Led Zeppelin, Metallica or Iron Maiden less so.

 

[overoceans]

Had to Hell would the nazi propaganda react, about the work of publisher Moe Goodman, comic author Stanley Martin Lieber and Artist Jacob Kurtzberg ?

Well, yeah, but I think usually when the Nazis criticized Jewish writers and artists, they pointed to things in the actual content of the work that embodied supposed Jewish tendencies. Like, it's left-wing, cosmopolitan, soul-lessly capitalistic, whatever.

But with the Superman comic described in that article, those features would seem to be entirely absent, and in fact it sounds rather like something the Nazis themselves would have created, save for it being Allied rather than Axis propaganda.

 

[Vahktang]

During WWII the Nazis produced a color movie of Baron Munchausen and yet another Titanic movie (where the owners caused the deaths of the poorer masses).
Not banned but promoted were various blood sports: boxing and bare knuckle. I could see tv wrestling, with the characters, drama, etc, being quite big.
Maybe see the violence in movies typical for that decade come in a decade earlier.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Taking into account Soviet attitudes, and Western attitudes, I would assume the Nazis would view Rock n' Roll as a "miscegenation", encouraging juvenile delinquency, and probably a Jewish conspiracy to undermine moral purity. Basically everything a Southern preacher would assume in the early Fifties, except with the power to ban it everywhere and thoroughly harass, imprison, and perhaps do worse to anyone partaking in it. Like in the Soviet Union, it would probably go underground until the State finally and softly allows it to be unbanned.

 

[SaskaPlauisble]

Video Games, without a doubt if the Nazis survived into the 80s we wont be seeing any consoles there