What effect had on Israel if Hitter only able kill half as many Jews in Europe

Jason222

Banned
Let say for argument shake Hitler had been lot less successful war against the Jews I could name few ways possible. One the Jews must part did fight back rather going Nazi promises or going hiding. Would been most likley reason well for one thing European was problem facing longer Jews return homes throw displacement camps. It very possible UK much heavy presser to allow the Jews enter Palestine.Also the number Jews sneak since lot longer number trying rise issues lot sooner. Interest part refugee either way issues allow return because Palestinian Arabs still try commit genocide on the Jews
 
it's Irralvent the Jews had by then been scape goats and victums for more than a thousend years. The never again slogan was the fact no country ever proected them no matter how many promised it. So they felt they needed their own state and it was something they would seek no matter what.
 
If all the survivors went to Israel, would the country be overpopulated?

(This of course depends on where the additional survivors are. If they are in Eastern Europe, they would have trouble going to Israel.)
 

Jason222

Banned
I did not think Israel became over population. Israel likley handle 3 million Jews unstable economic little longer. Israel might well taking more Palestinian Arab refugee. Might just enough peace happen what diseaster for rest World.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
So he only wipes out HALF the Jews in Europe?

No real difference. The Camps are still the Camps, the sense of betrayal is the same, the general sympathy toward the Jewish people is the same, the Zionist movement is still the same.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Well, by not wasting as many resource on the extermination camps, it would make the war days to weeks longer. I think to get half as many realistically requires the Nazi to act with less passion on the issue. I don't think the other actions give a large enough impact to save that many. As to the post war demographics, I think 3 million dead is enough to get the majority to still immigrate, probably with roughly the same % to each destination, which would be mostly USA and Israel.

You seem to be most interested in Israel after the war. The level of brutality would be about the same as OTL by both sides. Israel will have more people, which means more soldiers, which likely means more battles won, which likely means a little bit more land gained and a bit more Palestinian refugees. My guess is the Israels would push for a wider strip near its most narrow point and more of the Jerusalem area. Once you get past this time frame, you have likely butterflied away OTL towards Israel. Israel with say 1.5 million more Jews and controlling all of Jerusalem is a more powerful nation, so it will make different decisions. There will be follow up wars, but different years, different reasons.
 
Well, by not wasting as many resource on the extermination camps, it would make the war days to weeks longer. I think to get half as many realistically requires the Nazi to act with less passion on the issue. I don't think the other actions give a large enough impact to save that many. As to the post war demographics, I think 3 million dead is enough to get the majority to still immigrate, probably with roughly the same % to each destination, which would be mostly USA and Israel.

....

The war could be going better for the Nazis, so they think they have all the time in the world.

Then the sun rises over Berlin.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
The war could be going better for the Nazis, so they think they have all the time in the world.

Then the sun rises over Berlin.

I don't think it is that much time. The extermination camps took about 3% of rail capacity, so we are adding 1-2% supplies to the eastern front each day. We can also use some of the men tasked to the camps. I don't really see any major or medium size battles going the other way, but I do see more ammo/supplies mean more Russian casualties at many battles (say 1%). The cumulative effects will slow down the Russians and it will add up over time. A company of troops battered here by an extra artillery barrage. One more tank lost there to an extra anti-tank mine. And extra supply dumped bombed. By days to weeks, I mean more like 5-30 days longer war, which is basically the Russians being delayed 0.5 to 3 days per quarter by extra losses.
 
Hilter falls more into the Pol Pot/Idi Amin school of genocidal megolaniacs, leaving Stalin and Mao to duke it out for humanity's biggest monster.

Israel will have up to 3 million extra citizens early on, giving it more citizens, soliders, a better starting position and a bigger population base in the long term. Israel will be even more of a regional power, and likely have more territory, perhaps keeping the Sinai, South Lebanan or the other bank of the River Jordan.
 

Jason222

Banned
Hilter falls more into the Pol Pot/Idi Amin school of genocidal megolaniacs, leaving Stalin and Mao to duke it out for humanity's biggest monster.

Israel will have up to 3 million extra citizens early on, giving it more citizens, soliders, a better starting position and a bigger population base in the long term. Israel will be even more of a regional power, and likely have more territory, perhaps keeping the Sinai, South Lebanan or the other bank of the River Jordan.
UK not allow ZIonist force invade Lebanon, the Sinai or Syria or cross Jordan river. However possible Zionist force might have over power Egypt and Jordan all together took West Bank and Gaze strip leading few Palestinian Arab refugees. All since Israel less afraid right of return likley lead peace in Israel war in rest the Middle East. Very likley pull both USSR and USA into world war III.
 
The real question is - what if Nazi Gernmany had not not persecuted the Jews at all. Jews fought for German in WWI. What if Einstein, and hundreds of other intellectuals, scientists, and engineers, had been loyal Germans?

So then you think - WTF was Hitler thinking anyway? Well, they could steal the assets of the Jews after they disposed of them - but was that the same value of the brain power and military men they might have gained?

If Hitler had decided to find another scapegoat - heck just use the US like everybody does now - what would have been the outcome?
 

Jason222

Banned
The real question is - what if Nazi Gernmany had not not persecuted the Jews at all. Jews fought for German in WWI. What if Einstein, and hundreds of other intellectuals, scientists, and engineers, had been loyal Germans?

So then you think - WTF was Hitler thinking anyway? Well, they could steal the assets of the Jews after they disposed of them - but was that the same value of the brain power and military men they might have gained?

If Hitler had decided to find another scapegoat - heck just use the US like everybody does now - what would have been the outcome?
I great idea wrong post.
 
UK not allow ZIonist force invade Lebanon, the Sinai or Syria or cross Jordan river. However possible Zionist force might have over power Egypt and Jordan all together took West Bank and Gaze strip leading few Palestinian Arab refugees. All since Israel less afraid right of return likley lead peace in Israel war in rest the Middle East. Very likley pull both USSR and USA into world war III.

In the short them no, but I was thinking long term. With a starting population base 3 million people larger, not counting thier decendents, the manpower boost alone would let Israel hold a lot of territory they took in OTL but didn't hold onto.
 
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