What does your ideal surviving Roman Empire look like?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by NAF, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Koprulu Mustafa Pasha Sadrazam of the Roman Empire Gone Fishin'

    Oct 24, 2017
    - Contains both Rome and Constantinople
    - Contains North Africa, Egypt, Levant, Mesopotamia, Anatolia, Iberia and Italy

    - Islam (70%), Christian (28%), Jewish (2%)
    - Turkish, Arabic, Greek, South Slavic and Italian form 90% of the state

    - Ruled by Ottoman Dynasty
    - Absolute Monarchy
    - Islamic
    - Turkish, Arabian, Italian, Greek & Persian official languages

    Foreign situation
    - No other Emperor than this Emperor
    - Fronts as west as Italy, France. As north as Hungary, Ukraine (Crimea), Caucasus. As East as Persia. As South As Sudan and Yemen. Can hit Britain as well as the Indies

    - Secular society but religious laws forbids people from different religions to marry each other
    - Mosques, Churches, Synagoges are 50% full a minimum
    - Urbanised
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  2. TwiliAlchemist Student

    Feb 2, 2014
    Clackamas, Cascade Republic
    Less of an ideal Roman Empire and more one that I think would be kinda interesting.

    What territory does it control?
    What is its government?
    Executive: Triumvirate Republic. (Military, Domestic, and Diplomatic Leaders.)
    Legislature: Totalitarian Democracy.
    What is its religious situation?
    Religious syncretism. Mostly based on Roman Mythology, but it contains a large amount of influence from Christianity (and later Islam). Special note goes to Jupiter-Jehovah, the head god of the Religion. Also a large minority of Buddhists which usually gets absorbed into the syncretism. Occasionally Buddha is syncretized with Jesus Christ into Christ Buddha
    How does it look demographically?
    How powerful is it on the world stage?
    It's not.
    What is modern Roman society like? Anything interesting about the culture that you'd like to share?
    It's a trade nation. Almost all ships that travel the Mediterranean have to stop in the Roman Empire. All the laws of the society are based on the old laws of the Roman Empire and the Roman Republic.
  3. SeaCambrian Alien Space Bat

    May 28, 2018
    Pretty decent Second Rome.

    But what about the REAL Rome?

  4. Kiz [insert something witty and comical]

    Dec 15, 2017
    ITTL, but which one?
    Name: The Democratic Republic of Rome

    Territory: Northern Italy, Northern Coast of the Adriatic

    Form of Government: Demo-Republican Absolutism
    A bare-bones explanation of the system goes something along the lines of this: The people vote for it's Senate members, mimicking the democratic practices that rose to dominate Europe after the last fall of the Empire. This Senate selects a pair of Consuls from its own and these Consuls act as commander-in-chiefs and judges to the highest cases of the state. Consuls also serve to attempt to put certain state-wide policies or agendas (i.e. decrease military funding to reinvest the money into infrastructure and the public school system). For the most part, the Senate is in charge of legislative affairs.

    There are five major political parties, most of which are associated with sports teams (i.e. The Blue Party is connected to the sports team, the Blues. This connection developed when the requirements to become a Senator became much looser, a lot of the rich and influential that funded the games were able to implant themselves in politics, firmly bonding the Roman political and entertainment worlds for years to come).

    Religion: The Vatican-Nicenic Sect
    The Sect is a creed of Roman Catholicism that focuses on centralizing religious authority around the government to justifies it's rule and its actions (think: divine right but rather that justifying monarchies, it protects the sanctity of the democratic process) It isn't nearly as authoritative as it sounds on paper, it's a group of teachings and interpretations that back up a stable transfer of power and safeguard it from the ambitious and malicious who would want to re-establish an Emperor, not a religious personality cult. Essentially, you n would hear about it every now and then at Mass, but other than that, it's mostly OTL Roman Catholicism with its fair share of butterflies.



    37% Roman: Whoever can draw their lines back to a mostly pure line of Latin blood

    21% Latinized Germanic/Gallic: Whoever has a fair mix of German/Gallic and Latin blood

    16% Latinized Briton: Whoever has a fair mix of Briton and Latin blood

    8% Latinized Slavic: Whoever has a fair mix of Eastern European and Latin blood

    10% Greek: Whoever has a majority of Greek blood

    5% Germanic/Gallic: Whoever has a majority of German/Gallic blood

    1% Briton: Whoever has a majority of Briton

    1% Slavic: Whoever has a majority of Slavic blood

    .08% Eastern: Whoever has Anatolian and Middle Crescent blood


    74% Roman Catholic: OTL Roman Catholicism with the obligatory butterflies.

    15% Theogonist: Reformed Greek Paganism with a holy text and a system of rituals. This view of Greco-Paganism attempts to make sense of all myths and make them all truthful, therefore all the Olympians take their seat as Olympians (i.e. 13 seats, Hestia and Dionysus are simultaneously Olympians). In an attempt to centralize the faith, Theogonists mostly ignore the minor gods and focus on the Greater 13.

    7% Valkism: One of the major sects of Reformed Germanic/Gallic/Briton Paganism with a hard focus on the Germanic gods. Henotheist religion that focuses on Odin and "his daughters" the Valkyries (Essentially, compare Odin and the Valkyries to God and his angels)

    3% Jewish: OTL Judaism with the obligatory butterflies.

    .3% Unreformed Pagan: The very few who still respect the old gods. Ranges from normal people (teachers, cooks, office worker, etc.) to mad cultists, which gives the entirety of the religions a bad wrap.

    Rome is a far cry from the ever-powerful empire it once was. As a state, it is still a fairly good size and is still a very relevant political entity when it comes to Mediterranean affairs. Culturally, it is a treasure trove, being the root of most art and literature. This combined with its prestigious history makes it a tourist hot-spot and people flood to the country constantly. Its military, while not as grand as it once was, Rome keeps itself safe from external threats. Its citizens enjoy being members of one of the highest developed countries in the world and have a pretty high quality of life rating. Most Romans are comfortable financially and, while Rome's own industrial production is not much to impress, the famed Aquileian port island (couldn't think of a better name for Venice) and other factors has made trading and exports an important part of the Roman economy.

    (Thanks to John I of Brazil for the template)
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  5. Umbric Man Umbric Manned

    Jan 5, 2008
    Southern Hella-ware
    Plot twist: "Rome" as we know it controls only Italy. In fact, it's basically Italy without the history of division and a direct continuity from a rump Western Empire that managed to somehow survive.

    To wit: it is a surviving "Roman Empire" AKA "Romania" (Roman-Land) that is composed geographically entirely of and only the Italian Peninsula (which was the direct integrated territory of the SPQR/City of Rome versus the provinces), its language is overwhelmingly Latin-AKA Roman-AKA "Modern Latin"-speakers, its ethnicity overwhelmingly primarily Latin/Roman AKA OTL Italian (which itself came out of Roman colonists settling everywhere within the Italian peninsula and eliminating fellow Italic or genuinely foreign tribes and peoples up to the Punic Wars as in OTL), and had ups and downs with the rest of Christian Europe throughout the Medieval Era, Renaissance, Industrial Age, etc. just like the Italians of reality did. "Italy/Italian" as words in this world refers only to the geographic Italian peninsula and not to an ethnicity or language, unless you use the modifier "Italic".

    Greek-speaking and Greek-inhabited lands followed more or less the same course as OTL, and the Eastern Roman Empire as in OTL is known widely as "the Byzantine Empire", "the Greek Empire" or "Greece in the Medieval Era", especially once the Byzantines as in OTL re-discovered their Hellenic roots and the Kingdom of Greece also stressed continuity with the ancient Greeks. The names Rome/Roman/Romania, especially in the Western World, instead are usually given entirely to what we know as OTL Italy and the Italians, due to their maintaining direct governmental and cultural continuity with their ancient ancestors. Even though Romans/Italians of TTL more or less also gain whatever reputations they had as Italians do in OTL.

    Basically? Keep Italy with far more direct continuity with its ancient Roman-Latin ancestry and culture.
  6. Alienspacebats Dēmokratía is people's will

    Mar 16, 2014
    Hmm, I would like some help on this. I got whole lot of ideas but one majority problem describe all the new things that were developed like Reforms to Roman Mythology, Left-wing Military-based populism(Proletariat-Soldier Traditions and all that) , terminology into a easy understand post
  7. GustavusAdolphus1 Well-Known Member

    Dec 27, 2017
    Do you have any more information on the religion of this Rome? It sounds very interesting. I assume there are influences from other classical religions, given how they influenced Roman religion IOTL. I'd love some more information on what the pantheon and mythology of their religion looks like, and if it's practiced anywhere else in the world.

    What do you mean by Jesus Christ being syncretized with Buddha? I understand Christianity and Buddhism being syncretized, but that usually entails Christ being a Buddha (not Siddhartha Gautama) or Christ being a reincarnation of the Buddha, not Christ and Buddha being combined into one person. Seeing how they both were likely historical figures (of course, their divinity is a whole other matter), they can't really be 'syncretized' like the pagan gods were.
    jennysnooper87 likes this.
  8. Emperor Casey Banned

    Jul 1, 2013
    Nothing super specific but being able to avoid the Vandal invasion of North Africa will allow Rome to keep its bread basket and avoid a lot of civil unrest that occurs as a result of that loss. Keeping a strong navy allows them to control the Illyrian coast and prevent any other kingdoms from taking it and Greece's mountains aid in its natural defense. Rome is able to form a strong alliance with the Franks who help to secure Rome's western borders allowing it to concentrate its defenses in the east. It loses Spain to the Vandals and other barbarians.

    Basically a Rome that can maintain a stable line of succession by choosing the best heirs rather than by hereditary means would over time as the printing press and other communication lines are developed into a semi-elected monarchy with the senate helping to approve a good successor.
  9. Albireo Lurker, mostly

    Aug 5, 2014
    Jakarta, Union of Indonesian Socialist Republics
    Territory: OTL Greek and Turkish Thrace, North Aegean and Dodecanese islands, western Anatolia, northern coast of Anatolia, southern Crimea


    Capital: Constantinople
    Government type: Constitutional elective monarchy
    Religion: Roman Orthodox Christianity as a state religion
    Demographics: Majority Greek-speaking, Turkish minority mostly in the eastern areas. The Crimean Goths still remain as a distinct community, though the majority speak Greek. There is an effort being made to preserve their language, like the OTL Celtic nations.
    A definite regional power, part of a Balkan economic union in which it holds a great deal of the power, like Germany or France in the EU.

    It is a separate state from the neighbouring Republic of Greece. Relations between Constantinople and Athens are cordial, akin to OTL Malaysia and Indonesia, acknowledging their shared language and history but with distinct "Roman" and "Greek" identities. I imagine Greece having been under Venetian and perhaps also Slavic domination until the 19th century, resulting in cultural differences.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  10. markus meecham Marxism-Leninism-Bricksquad thought Banned

    Mar 6, 2018
    -1 Rome,based out of Persepolis
    -2 Rome, based out of Babylon
  11. scottrich Well-Known Member

    Sep 7, 2010
    utica, ny USA
    I always wanted to see a modern Roman Republic and Han China staring at each other across the Mississippi. That's ASB territory.
  12. Kerney defender of low probability atls everywhere

    Feb 23, 2010

    Photo of the Roman Star Empire ship Julian the Great, taken from Vinlandic Star Empire Ship Hugin. The Romans, along with our Vinlandic Empire, the Middle Kingdom, the Sassinid and Gupta Empires form the U.E.E. or Unitied Earth Empires, who have colonized twelve planets within 30 ly from Earth.

    Note the Eagle pattern, similar to our own Vinlandic Raven pattern, symbolizing the Senate and Augustus of Rome. It is named after the great emperor who stabilized Roman succession and religious practices. This picture was taken in 2614 after the founding of Rome (otl 1967).
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  13. LeCHVCK Well-Known Member

    Apr 25, 2014
    Berlin, Germany
    The perfect Roman Empire is obviously a Greek catholic Turkish speaking Republic in modern day Greece with Thessaloniki as capital.
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  14. TwiliAlchemist Student

    Feb 2, 2014
    Clackamas, Cascade Republic
    To be honest, I'm going to retcon this. I originally wrote this while I was procrastinating homework. Most of it wasn't fully thought out.

    Speaking of not as thought out. I really didn't have many other plans for this, but I do like the concept so here:

    Jupiter-Yahweh is the Head God and the god of the sky.
    Buddha is the God of Wisdom and Reincarnation.
    Pluto-Lucifer is the God of the Underworld and the Afterlife.

    Jesus Christ is the child of Jupiter-Yahweh and Mary.

    The Afterlife is divided into two major systems. Reincarnation and the Afterlife. Reincarnation is the consistent rebirth of a soul into a body that lives a life on Earth. The only way to escape Reincarnation is to follow the Eightfold Path of the Buddha and the Teachings of Jesus Christ. Escaping Reincarnation results in the soul going to the Afterlife where the soul will be judged to be either good or bad. If the soul is good, they they receive eternal happiness and their soul will become one with the Universe. If the soul is bad, then they will be tortured for thousands of years then reincarnated. The soul is judged based on all the lives they've lived.

    The religion is mostly contained to the Roman Empire.
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  15. AnonymousSauce Raisin Canesian

    Aug 17, 2016
    by the deep fryer
    Mine would be a Roman Empire that controlled basically the modern state of Italy plus Corsica and Malta.

    In 476, instead of deposing Romulus Augustulus, Odoacer established something similar to a Shōgunate with the Augustulan line becoming figurehead emperors and Odoacer and his descendants being the true rulers. They are able to recover all of Italy and some of North Africa, though that is lost in the Muslim invasion, and Italy is spared the devastation of the Gothic wars. The boundaries of the empire have fluctuated to a degree since then, but it has never fully lost the Italian heartland.
  16. Augenis Latvia isn't real

    Jun 13, 2016
    Lietuvos Respublika
    Rome expands to the Vistula, Baltic tribes invade, an ambitious Baltic general invades Italia directly, overthrows the last "Roman" Roman Emperor and declares himself to be the new one.

    The rest writes itself from there.
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  17. Atamolos Pontifex, princeps, and augustus

    Dec 22, 2014
    The island from Lost

    Something like this. A Roman empire occupying the Balkans with maybe a toe-hold in Anatolia. It's largely Greek and Slavic in origin, and imperial documents are written in triplicate in the Latin, Greek, and Cyrillic alphabets. The Republic has been restored but with a more modern legal system (i.e. none of the ex post facto laws that caused so many shenanigans during the Republic). The Romans are periodically allied to their northern neighbors and intermittently at war with whichever power controls Anatolia. Periodic decentralization in Anatolia allows the Romans periods of reform and stability. There's still an emperor, but he (or she) is largely ceremonial and the senate has evolved into a more representative body (with senators from each of the provinces/diocese/themes/etc) headed by consuls who serve yearly terms but can be re-elected indefinetely.
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  18. Mitchell Hundred Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2010
    How is this a surviving Roman Empire and not just a more successful Ottoman Empire?
  19. Emperor Casey Banned

    Jul 1, 2013
    That enclave.... that poor enclave. Though I imagine domestic air travel and cruises are popular.
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  20. LeCHVCK Well-Known Member

    Apr 25, 2014
    Berlin, Germany
    na for real the perfect roman empire is Friedrich II on steroids. Germany, Burgundy, Italy, Sicily and Jerusalem and the latin empire all under an emperor descended from the Staufers. The six crowns of the empire all have regional parliaments and there's also a central parliament which actually rules the empire as the emperor is just the figurehead. This is in Rome. The rest of western and central Europe is connected to the Empire in a EU like entity where the roman emperor is president like the austrian emperor was in the german confederation.
    And Sicily keeps it's italo-arab multiculture even if Friedrich weakened them in OTL.