What does your ideal surviving Roman Empire look like?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by NAF, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Albert.Nik Well-Known Member

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    Mar 30, 2018
    Italy,Balkans,Anatolia,Parts of Eastern Caucasus,Most of Syria,Lebanon and Jordan and Egypt. This is the best case scenario for them to survie. Gaul,Hispania and others are left for Germanics to settle after they invade them. The capital is located in Greece region or is Rome itself. Considering it would be the former(Byzantium) establishing such an Empire,it would be in Greece. The majority of citizens are Greek as Italy and Northern Balkans are the only non Greek regions. Egypt,Levant and Mesopotamia are all heavily Hellenized.
     
  2. Blorg Well-Known Member

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    Jun 22, 2018
    Background: Sultan Mehmed let the last of the Byzantines to exile in Crete despite this being a character assassination.

    A rump state in Crete that is 75% Greek 87% Greek Orthodox Christian. Its culture is very "The south will rise again" seeing past glories as a golden age that if they tried (aka invade all the former roman empire) they could retake what they call "The Roman honors". On the global stage it has the respect a nation of that has survived longer then any other ( no San Marino ). But is treated politely as a old rambling man would. It living standards are not the best nor the worst either there still is a massive divide between rich and poor and a very small middle class. It has received some criticism from some nations for aggressive foreign policy for a war in Cyprus it has been called the Byzantine Vietnam. Inside the "Empire" they refer themselves as Romans. The Emperor since "The great fall" (The exile from Constantinople) Has been a mere puppet for the generals and rich a small senate with suffrage for those who own land only men can vote. This is my realistic Rome My absolute dream Rome owns all of Europe and has a moon base.
     
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  3. TheByzantineOttoman Donor

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    Nov 21, 2016
    Location:
    America
    My perfect Rome is fluid, migrating every few hundred years as needed.

    First Rome- based out of Rome (founding-476)

    Second Rome- based out of Constantinople (476-717)

    Third Rome- based out of Antioch (717-907)

    Fourth Rome- based out of Persepolis (907-1225)

    Fifth Rome- based out of Delhi (1225-1389)

    Sixth Rome- based out of Bengal (1389-1526)

    Seventh Rome- based out of Ayutthaya (1526-1765)

    Eight Rome- based out of Guangzhou (1765-1842)

    Ninth Rome- based out of San Fransisco (1843-1906)

    Tenth Rome- based out of New York (1906-1929)

    Eleventh Rome- based out of Lisbon (1929-1970)

    Twelfth Rome- based out of Rome (1970-present)

    No one understands how they've maintained legal continuity across time, geography, and culture, but somehow they've managed.

    They swear each move made sense at the time.
     
  4. Emperor Casey Well-Known Member

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    My version in a map. I was bored.
     

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  5. Byzantine fanatic Scholar of the West and East

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    Mar 19, 2015
    All you guys posting unrealistic huge empires. I get that this thread is fantasy, but I still feel my version was more realistic... :p
     
  6. Xianfeng Emperor Amateur Iran-o-phile

    *Ignores OP restrictions*

    The boundaries over which the Kayseri-i-rum rules, of course.

    [​IMG]
    I am not sorry.
     
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  7. NAF Active Member

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    Sep 20, 2017
    My Byzaboo heart aches :cryingface:
     
  8. Emperor Casey Well-Known Member

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    *pushes glasses up* well I thought mine was alright
     
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  9. Byzantine fanatic Scholar of the West and East

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    Mar 19, 2015
    Yeah me too. The map you posted, is a bit more manageable and not (quite) so hard to imagine. Looks a bit like the Roman Republic circa 146BC. Could use a bit of explanation though! How does this empire come about?

    In terms of my comment, I was thinking more of the guys who posted long descriptions. Why would Rome occupy such vast territories 1500 years after the western empire collapsed? It's just totally unrealistic.

    The one exception was the guy who posted that Rome will span the entire world. I liked that.
     
  10. Widowmaker94 Blackfyre Loyalist

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    Mar 27, 2016
    Yours is about as realistic as half these fantasies.:p
     
  11. Byzantine fanatic Scholar of the West and East

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    Mar 19, 2015
    At least my empire was small and not particularly powerful. This implies that it has experienced its fair share of defeats and disasters, has probably lost more often than it won, yet has somehow survived. The thing is the Roman Empire surviving at all is already pretty unlikely, so at least if it is small that requires less suspension of disbelief.

    But scenarios involving a massive empire imply that somehow the Romans managed to consistently win again and again, for thousands of years. That just isn't plausible, reality doesn't work like that. Sooner or later, they're bound to suffer defeats, civil wars, dynastic disputes, it's in the nature of things. If they're going to exist at all, they should at least expect to be defeated as often as they win.

    Just my opinion.
     
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  12. John I of Brazil Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2018
    In my defense, i didn't put a detailed history of tge empire because i know my ideal version would depend of many luck to happen, but i imagine thattmy version of the Roman Empire would still have lost most of the western territories, staying only with Italy, North Africa and parts of Spain, but would become rich again in the late Middle ages thanks to the naval power in the Mediterranean and at the expense of the crescent instability of the eastern half , helping and recognizing separatist states such as Egypt as long as they pay tributes to the western emperor (meanwhile the ERE still deals with invasions). This power would allow the WRE to retake their western territories of Hispania and Galia .

    Or something like this.
     
  13. DominusNovus Humbled by Fate

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    The Roman Republic adapts to its expansionism better, and industrializes in the first few centuries AD.

    Territory: Everything within a few light years of Sol, ceremonial capital is Roma, administrative capital is the Romulus Orbital Habitat
    Government: Federal Republic
    Religion: Pluralistic, but Chalcedonian Christianity is pre-eminent, under the care of the Pope
    Demographics: 100% Roman Citizens
    Political Power: A few dissident groups exist on the bleeding edge of the ever-expanding sphere of Roman influence throughout our corner of the galaxy, but far more than 99% of all territory, wealth, and population is under Roman governance
    Society: Too diverse to describe. As long as everyone pays their taxes and the men sign up for military service (a formality, when there's only one government left), the state is generally content to let everyone live their lives as they see fit.

    I don't think its possible to top that, without invoking FTL and straying too far into ASB territory.
     
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  14. Mikestone8 Well-Known Member

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    Peterborough, UK.
    The Vatican City. That way it's too small to do any real harm, whatever its form of government.
     
  15. Mikestone8 Well-Known Member

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    Peterborough, UK.

    L Sprague de Camp would probably have agreed with you.

    In his The Wheels of If, in a alt-20C there was a Greek-speaking "Roman Empire" holding Asia Minor, the southern Balkans, and the toe of Italy.
     
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  16. cmakk1012 Well-Known Member

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    Apr 30, 2012
    I may not like your opinion, but I respect it dammit
     
  17. Byzantine fanatic Scholar of the West and East

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    Mar 19, 2015
    What is the language and religion of this great empire?
     
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  18. John I of Brazil Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2018
    If you think about it, the Vatican IS the closest thing of a surviving Western Roman Empire in OTL

    Rules over a big part of humanity : check

    Has a "pretorian guard" (swiss g): check

    The leader yses the title "pontifice maximus": check

    The capital is (in) Rome: check

    Official language is latin: check

    Worldly important: check

    The leader is seen as a sacred figure: check

    Suffered because of successful "rebellions " and "invasions" from a germanic force (protestantism): check
     
  19. Basilisk Well-Known Member

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    Paris
    Constitutional monarchy, Parliamentary with figurehead monarch similar to the UK. Territory of all of Anatolia, including Armenia, Lazica, and Georgia, and all of the Baltics up to the Danube and Sava Rivers, including the Dalmatian coast, and also the entire Crimea, Cyprus, and Crete, as well as Cilicia to Antioch, and an enclave of Tripoli in the East. Close relationship with independent nations of Sicily and the Kingdom of Naples, and a friendly rivalry with an Italian state.

    The population is vastly Orthodox Christian, with considerable populations of other Christian sects (Notably Catholics and Assyrians), Muslims, Jews, and Protestants, including Eastern Orthodox-flavor Protestants. The population mostly speaks Greek/Rhomeike, but 1/3 speaks it as a second language, after Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and other minority languages like Albanian (especially in Hellas).

    About 2/3 are ethnic Romans, largely in Anatolia, Thrace, Macedonia, and the Aegean islands, and in urban areas. They are a great power with considerable influence in the Levant and Egypt, and the wider Mediterranean, and a contender for the largest economy in Europe (as well as the largest population). They lag some western European countries in growth and industrialization, but are culturally similar with a mostly secular civil society and openness to the world.

    Major political factions align the urban Roman populace with minorities and peripheral regions with a pro-western and secular outlook, against a strong bloc of religious conservatives and rural ethnic Rhomans that are more nationalistic and align with minority nationalist parties to with the aim to create church-connected nation-states.
     
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  20. Vitalis Member

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    Jun 8, 2017
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Roman state controlling modern Greece and Turkey would be enough for me, to be honest. Not too large, so they wouldn't be facing any separatist groups at all. Easily feasible without major POD, had things turned out differently. A Republic or Federation would be feasible, as I don't see monarchy lasting all the way until the modern day.

    That's the accurate and possible Rome. For my ideal, well, I would include the Balkans up to Danube, Levant and Egypt as well. Maybe even Southern Italy. Not much of a Latinate Rome fan, to be honest, so I don't care about Italy or modern France. Constitutional Monarchy with the Senate would be ideal. As for the demographics, it would be mostly Greek speaking (Greece, Anatolia, some parts of Italy, Levant and Egypt, as well as Syrians, Egyptians. Religiously Orthodox, mostly. In a modern age it would still be considered one of the Greater powers, but more akin to UK of today, as there would surely be some other superpower present.
     
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