FIAT for World War 2 can mean something else:
Field Intelligence Allied - Technical.
What does an Allied Italy look like before, during, and after World War 2?
- Thread starter M79
- Start date
Field Intelligence Allied - Technical.
marathag
Banned
Yeah, that's the other reason for leaning to the US, they would have Oil revenues after the War, while the UK lost their hold on the Middle East production, and wasn't a player on the Oil Markets till the North Sea platforms opened.
ahmedali
Banned
Spain is a backward country compared to Italy in the same period
Portugal is the most real fascist regime, unlike Spain, which is essentially a reactionary regime in the Franco era and closer to Horthy than to Mussolini.
marathag
Banned
OTOH, the Portuguese people wanted change at that point.
Would the Italians want real change in 1960, or just more of the same?
ahmedali
Banned
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Sao Tome and Cabo Verde had a large white Portuguese population
And Portugal abandoned them. Why won't Italy give up Libya?
Sao Tome and Cabo Verde had a large white Portuguese population
And Portugal abandoned them. Why won't Italy give up Libya?
How many times I tell you? Libya is closer to Italian mainland than Sao Tome and Cabo Verde ever will. Portugal abandons them because of they can't handle the colonies rebellion in their Empire while Italy had Libya on their backyard.
It's very likely that Libya will be an Italian province similar to Naples and Sardinia with many settlers throughout the Coastline in the Colonies
ahmedali
Banned
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Sao Tome and Cabo Verde had a large white Portuguese population
And Portugal abandoned them. Why won't Italy give up Libya?
She did not become independent except because the Portuguese themselves granted independence
Cabo Verde is actually close to Portugal and has become independent
Sao Tome and Cabo Verde had a large white Portuguese population
And Portugal abandoned them. Why won't Italy give up Libya?
By 1970 independence movements in the Portuguese colonies had been largely suppressed and divided
She did not become independent except because the Portuguese themselves granted independence
Cabo Verde is actually close to Portugal and has become independent
You have to realize that will be a political suicide right? The fascist party will be popular by the masses because of winning WW2 and Settlements of Libya and Eritrea to be Italianizated.
As much as Umberto II want don't kick out the fascist, they are too popular and Central to Italian government to get kicked out by the king.
You just copy your old posts on my respond to your old post.
Because Portugal had a revolution and likely Italy is not had any at all
Remember a lot more Italians go and settle in Libya more than Portuguese on Cabo Verde
This "backwards country" survive longer with Portugal dictatorship by a year and is also a fascist state as they were consider fascist.
Also Mussolini regime OTL lasted 22 years before the Allies kick the fascist out, so it is not surprising if they lasted longer than any even Portugal & Spain did
They will likely will not want to change until the 90s where the Boogeyman of the Soviet Union will collapse and have no need to have a Fascist State anymore
ahmedali
Banned
Did Juan Carlos commit political suicide when he dismantled the Franco regime? no
Constantine II kept the dictatorship, did he stay? No
The fascists had no support but the king who gave them power
So if Umberto II restores democracy (and he will)
Support for fascists will vanish in the wind at lightning speed
(Churchill did not rule Britain until his death, although he won the war)
But racially it has a large number of white Portuguese you do not prove anything in reality
Britain could not keep all of Ireland and It is geographically close to them so this is not an argument
Of course they will want the generation that lived in the pre-fascist era to die
And there will be a generation born under Mussolini who will want him gone
The fascists will not survive after 1960. The party is centered on Mussolini himself, and if he dies, it vanishes
The problem with your example is that those dictatorship was unpopular and understandable to continue.
Italy by contrast have a good economy, stable enough and satisfy the regime to not had a revolution.
Fascists have no supports? They were very well liked in Italy before WWII destroy their credibility and in TTL where did joined and won with Allies, they're still very well liked and supported.
Umberto II can't snap his fingers and bring democracy back into Italy without any pushback by the Italian people.
The support of the fascist wouldn't stop, that just too unrealistic
Churchill wasn't a dictator, he was a prime minister
What? There was 130,000 Italian living in Libya and sitll continuing before world war II meaning if it continues there will likely be the majority in the 1960s or '70s.
The difference between Ireland and Libya is that Libya have a lower population than Ireland at the time.
The Libyan people have only a million at most while the Italians have 45 million people to settled.
Why honestly do you think the Libyan people have any chance to defending Italy? They have tons of weapons, no regard to break the Geneva convention and Better controlled to the colony than Portugal and France combined.
Why this Generation will want Mussolini gone? To the people who was born under Mussolini, they only see him as the "Modern Caesar" and the "Savior of Italy" in most young Italian youth around the 60s.
Why would you want to remove t
They will still be several figures who will take Mussolini place to continue the fascist state. People like Italo Babo, Ciano and Junio Borghese etc will likely will be the next la duce in the 1960s
ahmedali
Banned
The Spanish economic miracle did not ease the resentment of Franco why something like that would keep the fascists in earnest
Nonsense, the march of Rome was ridiculous, but it was the excessive fear of the king and the nobility that made them seize power.
Anything could have led to a massacre (literally all the leaders of the fascist party were at the rally) and therefore no fascism
Because Libya has been rebellious, at least for more than 20 years, and the Italians barely subjugated the interior
And the number of eggs in Cape Verde is twice that in reality
Ireland was less populated in 1900 than the United Kingdom
Balbo died in Libya (many suspicions that Mussolini killed him by his friend's fire)
And Bogrezzi will be the Italian Antonio Tejero
Ciano and Junio are not serious candidates
So the fascists end with the death of Mussolini
And Mussolini is prime minister thanks to the goodwill of the king and not thanks to any popular support so overthrowing the fascists is very easy
And why are the Italians angry about Umberto II's democratic return to the country?
Unless you think they are like Russians
Finally, the army divided it towards the king, not to the Duchi
The army chief and the prime minister said they could put down the march easily
Didn't the fascist destroy them with just a couple years after they were in power?
They destroyed any Libyan resistance in the end of the 30s and even depopulate Cyrenacia with it's Indigenous Libyan to give more room for Italian settlements
ahmedali
Banned
In major cities
The rest of Libya no
Just as the Portuguese and the French did, and this strategy failed
And Libya has neighbors that are ready to help them (Egypt, Tunisia and Algeria).
marathag
Banned
Even today, look at the population density
The People are in the Major Cities.
It's emptier than Afghanistan
Like I said Italy has a direct control to Libya compared to Portugal and France combined, where is the confusion here?
They have a lower population than Algeria and Mozambique natives by a vast margin
1962 Algeria: 11.32 Million
1970 Mozambique: 8.168 Million
1974 Angola: 6.762 Million
And for our little Libya
1960 Libya: 1.448 Million
Tunisia will just say it support Libya but not really do anything with it cause you know Italy is literally on the doorstep and help Libyan economy
I. MENTION. AGAIN. AND. AGAIN.
Egypt and Algeria will help Libya but the problem is that Italy will vastly more control in the colony because of the easier access to send troops there.
Where is the confusion here again?
ahmedali
Banned
Fighters will be smuggled and support will be smuggled
This strategy has always worked
OP clarifies that this thread is before, during and after WW2 of allies Italy meaning the death of Babo might be butterfly away because of POD.
Remember 15 years is a long time, so Ciano and Junio have enough time to be to be Serious candidates to be "Le Duce"
Okay for as insurgency like Northern Ireland Yes! but full Independence War like Algeria? no
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ahmedali
Banned
Balbo does not agree with Mussolini about many things, and even his death in Libya it was suspected that Mussolini had orchestrated it.
Yes, it will reach the levels of Algeria thanks to Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, the Soviets, most of the Arab countries and the United States
(The United States would want an independent Libya that would give them fuel instead of Italy, which controls them)
Count Ciano had betrayed Mussolini, so he's going to rule him out because he might intend to turn against him
I don't understand why you insist that the fascists will remain in power if they win the war
When neither Roosevelt nor Churchill succeeded in this
Of all the dictators, they are the weakest in terms of the stability of their legs
(The King is the one who saw them when no one took them seriously and could drive them out with a little fear)
Stalin is an exception because he had a very scary reputation in the Soviet Union
So much so that Mussolini, appointed by the king himself, could not even dream of it
With the death of Vittorio Emmanuel III, Umberto II will expel him without any fear on his throne
Because the army is loyal to him and not to the Duce, and the Italians will be satisfied to restore democracy to a large extent
Mussolini's reputation will probably be that of Salazar