What direction could Cuba take other than communism?

as part of my ASB ATL, ive decided that Cuba becomes independent (similar to OTL) as a result of a war between Spain and the US which lasts more than a few months; the US never completely conquers Cuba but still takes Puerto Rico and the Philippines (among other territories, otherwise the same as IOTL), and an ally in the war, *Mexico, doesnt get any other territory either. however, as a condition of ending the war, Cuba still becomes independent from Spain, and is now known as the Commonwealth of Cuba

Cuba comes under Spanish influence again in the next few decades and joins Spain in another war against the US from 1941 to 1945, and is hit by a chemical strike at the end of the war which ultimately leads to an american victory. its occupied and sorta becomes ITTL's post-WW2 Japan, demilitarized except for self-defense forces (and may also have an impact on American culture sorta like how Japan did by way of manga, anime, and video games)


anyway, im wondering what everyone thinks would happen to Cuba in terms of politics and international relations ITTL. communism does exist ITTL, but isnt as widespread, so it may well have not even reached Cuba. the occupation of Cuba probably lasts about as long as the occupation of Japan IOTL, and the OTL Cuban Revolution occurred from 1953 to 1959

basically, im unsure which direction Cuba should swing in ITTL. id like to explore possibilities other than communism and what could potentially arise. Batista doesnt necessarily exist ITTL, or isnt necessarily appointed as a dictator; Cuba may not even be a dictatorship here

thoughts? ideas? suggestions?
 

NothingNow

Banned
as part of my ASB ATL, ive decided that Cuba becomes independent (similar to OTL) as a result of a war between Spain and the US which lasts more than a few months; the US never completely conquers Cuba but still takes Puerto Rico and the Philippines (among other territories, otherwise the same as IOTL), and an ally in the war, *Mexico, doesnt get any other territory either. however, as a condition of ending the war, Cuba still becomes independent from Spain, and is now known as the Commonwealth of Cuba

Cuba comes under Spanish influence again in the next few decades and joins Spain in another war against the US from 1941 to 1945, and is hit by a chemical strike at the end of the war which ultimately leads to an american victory. its occupied and sorta becomes ITTL's post-WW2 Japan, demilitarized except for self-defense forces (and may also have an impact on American culture sorta like how Japan did by way of manga, anime, and video games)


anyway, im wondering what everyone thinks would happen to Cuba in terms of politics and international relations ITTL. communism does exist ITTL, but isnt as widespread, so it may well have not even reached Cuba. the occupation of Cuba probably lasts about as long as the occupation of Japan IOTL, and the OTL Cuban Revolution occurred from 1953 to 1959

basically, im unsure which direction Cuba should swing in ITTL. id like to explore possibilities other than communism and what could potentially arise. Batista doesnt necessarily exist ITTL, or isnt necessarily appointed as a dictator; Cuba may not even be a dictatorship here

thoughts? ideas? suggestions?
Fuck you for posting this so late. Now I'm not going to sleep tonight. :mad:

But none of that seems really plausible, especially the remaining under Spanish Influence bit, and the fighting a war against the Yanqui just because Madrid says so.

Havana would probably be under attack from a USN fleet before lunchtime on the second day of the war.
 
Fuck you for posting this so late. Now I'm not going to sleep tonight. :mad:

But none of that seems really plausible, especially the remaining under Spanish Influence bit, and the fighting a war against the Yanqui just because Madrid says so.

Havana would probably be under attack from a USN fleet before lunchtime on the second day of the war.
the idea is that cuba's been fortified against naval attacks and that the waters around it are defended by spanish submarines (there's alot of other changes to the TL, but im trying not to overwhelm everyone and/or get things off-topic; and remember, its ultimately ASB). part of teh reason for war was sanctions against spain and cuba in the region

sorry for wrecking your night's sleep :eek:
I think it depends on whether they industrialize or stay mostly agrarian.
id say cuba's industrial capacity would be more or less like how it is IOTL
 

NothingNow

Banned
the idea is that cuba's been fortified against naval attacks and that the waters around it are defended by spanish submarines (there's alot of other changes to the TL, but im trying not to overwhelm everyone and/or get things off-topic; and remember, its ultimately ASB). part of teh reason for war was sanctions against spain and cuba in the region

sorry for wrecking your night's sleep :eek:

Air power would rule the day. It'd buy the forces on the island a month or two, but not much. Unless the US is somehow impotent, or has squandered Florida enough to where it's hard to base aircraft there, (despite Paynes prarie, and some other locations being literally perfect for operating WW2-era aircraft.) Or the entire island is a fortress.

That said, if the defenders are prepared in any way, Cuba's pretty much impossible for an invader to hold, especially the mountainous eastern areas.

but if you're trying to make it Not-japan, go for a mostly Liberal Democracy, led by men of hewn from Machismo and calculating intelligence.
 
Non-Communist Cuba would probably be just another Banana Republic. Probably won't be much different socially or economically.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Non-Communist Cuba would probably be just another Banana Republic. Probably won't be much different socially or economically.

IOTL it was more developed, and a slightly more diverse economy, with tourism, skilled trades and resource extraction (Nickel and Iron are sizable exports) also being there, while Sugar, and Tobacco farming and Cattle ranching were the largest activities for much of the island.

But if the Island is turned into something of a Fortress by a somewhat or heavily anti-american government, there'd be more of a push to develop domestic oil and gas production (There's 197 million barrels of proven oil and ~71 billion cubic meters of Natural Gas on shore or in shallow, the oil's pretty nasty, and sour stuff, but still refine-able) and to get further efficiencies from fuel sources like Sugar Cane Feedstock, along with putting some demand in place for a domestic arms industry, fed by local mines (again, Nickel, Iron, Gold, and a few other valuable minerals have been found on the island in quantity.)

Now, if they're in place to exploit the massive estimated reserves that Scarabeo-9 is searching for (and should be able to find sooner or later, they've only been at it 4 months and with a single dry well,) you've got a country that will be looking for a place to spend it's considerable riches, from 5-20 billion barrels of oil and even more natural gas, but that's under about a mile of water.

As a side note, I'd also like to take this time to point out that the tech would take until the mid 1980's to develop, and Deepwater Horizions was as much of a problem as it is, because the US doesn't know what best practices is, and BP having the worst safety record of any Oil company in human history, Petrobras, or pretty much any international firm wouldn't have fucked up so badly.

But any sort of similar scale fuck-up in the Florida Strait would likely ruin much of the east coast economically, while making the Mayors and Hotel owners of West Florida experience so much Schadenfreude they'd literally explode from the perverse glee.
 
If you've got extensive Spanish influence post-independence, then why not have the place go Falangist? Fidel Castro as right-wing dictator...
 

NothingNow

Banned
If you've got extensive Spanish influence post-independence, then why not have the place go Falangist? Fidel Castro as right-wing dictator...

So, a Falangista *Batista? It wouldn't be that much of a stretch, especially if it took a more Integralist flavor, and rejected the normal emphasis on Blut und Boden, and took a Civic, Linguistic, and Territorial approach to Nationalism (which fits the very mixed nature of Latin America much better.)

Hell, if *Batista improves things as much as he did initially, and does things to improve the general health and welfare (as a strong nation first needs a strong body,) he could be very popular right up until the end, and the modern state would likely be built off the pre-war nation's corpse.

Hell, with something that appealing, you'd likely still have Guerillas in the Sierra Maestra range.
 
The July 26 Movement (M26J) was pushed toward Communist ideology because fundamentally independence for Cuba meant a move away from the United States. The Platt Amendment made sure that the US had decisive sway in Cuban affairs, and the revolution's goal of land reform necessarily meant alienating the USA by nationalizing the property of US corporations. A less militant approach would have probably led to a repeat of Guatemala in 1954. Cuban nationalism requires independence from the US, and that's got to be messy.

After 1898, the Cubans wanted nothing of Spanish influence - independence was an important cause for all of them. Aside from that, unless a country is willing for geopolitical reasons to embrace Cuba like the USSR does, an alliance with a partner other than the USA makes no sense. Cuba's a sugar-exporting country, and the alliance with the United States makes the most sense.

It's hard to see Cuba drawing too much closer to the major non-aligned countries (Nehru's India, Nasser's Egypt, Suharto's Indonesia, Nkrumah's Ghana, Tito's Yugoslavia) than it was IOTL. Cuba has always been a big part of the Non-Aligned Movement, and even then ideologically it would've had to consider itself "socialist" in some way, as all of those countries did. But none has the military and economic resources to support Cuba like the USSR did. An independent Cuba that doesn't draw itself into the Cold War web, and tries to do a "socialist but not Communist" routine, probably either gets invaded or has a coup d'etat in favor of a pro-US semi-fascist in the Latin American vein. Even if it doesn't immediately work, without the USSR to sell them oil and equipment and buy their sugar at preferential rates the whole arrangement would never have worked, and Cuba would have started to look more and more like Chile in 1973 (as Nixon put it - "make their economy scream").

The other alternative would be for the M26J to fail, which would have led to more dictatorship, more of the Mafia involvement, and a status probably similar to the Dominican Republic today, with a wide gap between the rich and the poor.
 
If you've got extensive Spanish influence post-independence, then why not have the place go Falangist? Fidel Castro as right-wing dictator...

If Cuba+Puerto Rico were to remain under Spanish rule, come the *SCW and I could definitely see both being on the Republican side. The reason? The Republicans were more apt to decentralizing Spain greatly (a major issue for Cubans and, to a lesser degree, Puerto Ricans), so it wouldn't be impossible to reckon that Cuba and Puerto Rico would have Statutes of Autonomy alongside Galicia, Catalonia, and the Basque Country (the three areas that got it before Franco revoked them). Hence, in such a scenario we could have a Taiwan situation where there's a Spanish Republican government-in-exile, but with the capital in either San Juan or Havana (take your pick, though I would think that to not make it too conspicuous San Juan would be a better option over the more glamorous Havana). If the Spanish Republican capital-in-exile is in San Juan, then I'd assume that people like Luís Muñoz Marín would be more influential. Thus sending Cuba+Puerto Rico probably towards a more PRI-like direction, but with unique differences.
 
Top