What did Japan plan to do if it won?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Quintuplicate, May 16, 2019.

  1. Quintuplicate Well-Known Member

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    The murderous plans Germany had for Eastern Europe if they'd won are well known. Did Japan have an equivalent to Generalplan Ost?
     
  2. Carl Schwamberger Well-Known Member

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    Not in the same sense. In the short run they intended to use their gains to negotiate favorable economic concessions from the Allies. Theyed return some colonies with stipulations about no military bases, favorable cotracts for Japans businesses. cessation of any aid to China, ect...

    There was some hypothetical writing or study of exploitation of the Southern Resource area, but not a lot of practical planning. The Army administration of the the conquered regions was very ad hoc and inept.
     
  3. eltf177 Well-Known Member

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    I had the impression that all the colonizing powers (the US, the UK, the French and the Dutch) were to be evicted. Then Japan would just take over, and I doubt the locals would be treated any better than before despite Japan's promises...
     
  4. Carl Schwamberger Well-Known Member

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    The most rabid leaders argued for complete eviction. Many never expected the level of success obtained, so they were thinking negotiations from a favorable position, against weak Allied leaders anxious to end a extra war.
     
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  5. James Ricker Own your mistakes

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    Probably look for another war to fight.
    The Japanese Army couldn't control its Junior Officers and they were always looking for trouble.
     
  6. Jellico Well-Known Member

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    "Same thing we do every night Pinky." The Brain.

    Every previous success spurred young up and comers to invade someone else, so it is easy to imagine a Japan that gets everything it wants, pause for a minute, then roll the dice again.
     
  7. Carl Schwamberger Well-Known Member

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    Assuming the Allies fall to their knees and beg forgiveness then preparations start for securing the Northern Resource Area.
     
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  8. Francisco Cojuanco To hell with Angelides and Pete Wilson

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    Or fall apart in coup after coup after coup. In part the Japanese expansion was the result of a combination of intense Army-Navy rivalries and the typical sort of colonialist dickwaving you saw among most WW1-era politicians.
     
  9. Dathi THorfinnsson Da├░i ├×orfinnsson

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    Plan?
    The Japanese in WWII dealt with tactical plans. Strategic plans were largely ignored. 'We win a tactical victory and poof the rest of the world caves to our demands'.
    Slight exaggeration, but only slight.
    Look at China. They had absolutely no strategic plan that didn't involve the China supinely rolling over like good little sefs.

    When that didn't happen, they had no idea what to do.

    So. 'Rainbows of peace and light and everyone bowing before the glory of Japan' is probably about as far as they got.
     
  10. Alex1guy First Of His Name

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    As far as I know they didn't have any concrete plans with maps and redrawn borders etc. A lot of advances and border adjustments were made on individual levels by relatively low ranking military officials bordering China. Loosely their plans were

    Step 1. Random military incursions
    Step 2. ???
    Step 3. China/the West lets us run Asia
    Step 4: Profit
     
  11. trurle bored blue collar worker

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    Japanese war planners IOTL had very tight reference group, not even including majority of low-class Japanese, were guided by the bad template of British Empire in colonization and exploitation, but were not suicidal or stupid. As soon as acquired territories would become the source of trouble, these would be gradually given independence.
    Therefore, as soon as anti-colonial movement gains momentum (the first signs, IOTL completely missed by Japanese, were in 1933), the development of Japanese Empire going to be similar to the collapse of French colonial empire, and approximately in the same timeframe (armed struggle in 1945-1955, followed by decolonization). Minor parts of captured territories (parts of East China and French Indochina?) likely to be integrated into Japan proper though, similar to how New Caledonia remains French for now.
     
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  12. Alanith Well-Known Member

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    I can't help but think that anyone advocating giving "Rightful" Japanese colonies to the control of the native population would find themselves assassinated in fairly short order.
     
  13. trurle bored blue collar worker

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    Not likely. The epoch of political assassinations in Japan have ended in 1939 already.
     
  14. Alanith Well-Known Member

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    Right. Which is why there was no such incident where junior army members tried to seize control of the government in 1945 to prevent the surrender.
     
  15. ObssesedNuker Commander of 10 million men

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    Uh-huh. Which is why they embarked on a suicidal war against the United States...

    Which is why the Japanese reaction to movements that acted against their colonial enterprises was to violently murder the fuck out of them. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  16. Enigmajones Ours Is The Fury

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    The wikipedia page on the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is basically the Japanese version of Generalplan Ost.
     
  17. trurle bored blue collar worker

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    You overvalue the Kyujo incident of 1945. All of Hatanaka`s rebels planned assassinations have failed, primarily due very low support from opposing government officials and even plot members.
     
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  18. trurle bored blue collar worker

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    Mental inertia and senility of decision-makers results is very late decisions. Well, average politician act on issues which arise about 10-20 years before his/her terms. In case of Japanese WWII state, with very strict promotion-by-seniority system, the lag between actual issue (independence sentiments in colonies in this case) and political reaction was close to 30 years. Therefore, sentiments have more time do develop into bloody conflict.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  19. ObssesedNuker Commander of 10 million men

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    I'm not sure how, for example, the fashion of Japanese lieutenants in their 20s beheading civilians who protested brutal and exploitation Japanese policies in occupied territories can be put down to "senility". Are you seriously suggesting that the entire Japanese officer corps in WW2 had gone senile?
     
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  20. trurle bored blue collar worker

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    It related. Very long careers and huge lags in decision-making have naturally alienated Japanese senior elites from the youths, resulted in a lot of insubordination. The problem was grasped in full after shameful defeat at Khalhin Gol (Nomonhan) though, and wave of "nuts tightening" in IJA has reduced the scale of of problems, although underlying issue of promotion system defect is not solved even today. In 1945, Americans just beheaded senile elite, resulting in one-generation long growth burst (which ended in Lost Decades), instead of actually fixing the defect.

    Seriously speaking, i remember figures showing the average Japanese division commander was 10 years older than corresponding German one of same epoch. Also, age gap did become progressively worse in higher ranks.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019