What could make America Become an Axis power?

I really want to write a timeline were America Becomes an Axis power and then has a cold war with Germany, but I can't figure out a plausible/possible way to make that happen. Could I get some help please.
 
Well if you had a pre-WW1 PoD which leads to the American joining the Central Powers then they could be in the 'Axis'.

However without that you need ASB intervention, maybe if the Depression went incredibly bad and led to a militaristic state rising from the ashes which smashes the old colonial powers, Japan and the Soviet Union.
 
okay how about this one.
Seeds of War 1939-1940
Hitler for once in his life listened to his generals and did the smart thing i.e. not invade Poland. Instead he held off his invasion and continued growing Germany into a bigger and bigger industrial juggernaut, funding research and development into a number of Wunderwaffen's  like the Sturer Emil, the super panzer, the Focke-Wulf Ta 28,the now infamous Horten Ho 229, Horten H.XVIII, and the atomic bomb. Tensions are high Europe but with the policy of appeasement still supported by Neville Chamberlain, as long as Germany doesn't attack "peace in our time" will remain. Germany's ally the empire of Japan on the other hand is as the years go by becoming more and more aggressive. In there barbarism in Indochina has lead the Americans to end the U.S.-Japan Commercial treaty in 1939, angering the Empire of the Sun greatly. The Japanese Seek help from there ally Germany hoping that the Germans will assist them in taking control of the Pacific and crush the Americans for there insult. With Germany Prospering in an economic golden age and with the Jewish Ghetto's, and labor camps working out nicely the German Reich sees no reason to instigate a war with a nation on the other side of the world which was in an economic age that resembled that of post WWI Germany. By ignoring a cry for help from there allies Germany had alienated them and within two months the Empire of the Sun withdrew from the Tripartite Pact. The Empire Continued Ravaging Indochina but had also begun constructing a massive fleet for which to make the Americans pay for there insolence.
Crumbling America 1937-April 1941
The Americans had fallen victim to a recession in 1937 and had yet to come out of it, without the second world war to spur the economy into overdrive through manufacturing the Americans had fallen and fallen hard. The Socialist policies of the Roosevelt administration had failed to revitalize the once great nation and it looked as if the country would never get back on its feet. Roosevelt’s attempt to grab the party nomination a third time failed miserably losing it to the man who had been able to get him elected the first time James Farley. Even with a new face the Democrats still were unable to win the 1940 election losing to the Republican candidate Arthur H. Vandenberg who had strongly opposed both the first and second New Deals put forth by Roosevelt. As a modified internationalist he saw that the only way for America to flourish again was for it to get back out into the world community, make allies and trading partners, that would buy American goods. The Germany had once been the Americans enemy, but as an industrial behemoth it was a tempting ally over the British who had done little to help the Americans. Vandenberg had the vision to see the see that the Japanese were growing more and more hostile and so only two months after his election he puts forth a bill that will make Pearl Harbor the most fortified American harbor in the entire world. To help pay for the project Vandenberg proposes an economic and commercial treaty between the U.S. and Germany. Hitler sees the potential of the Americans and on April 3, 1941 the German-American Trade Agreement is signed into law.

Is it still to ASB?
 
I really want to write a timeline were America Becomes an Axis power and then has a cold war with Germany, but I can't figure out a plausible/possible way to make that happen. Could I get some help please.

Well if the 'Axis' were an Imperial Germany + Britain + US vs. hmm... an Entente of France + Russia + ???

But the OTL Axis, no, nope, no way.
 
It's a bit ASB, sorry.

Germanys economy would have collased soo if it had not inaded Poland and you need to get rid of FDR and put a real screw up in the White House to get such a radicalized America.

Also the German atomic bomb program was terrible.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Hitler for once in his life listened to his generals and did the smart thing i.e. not invade Poland. Instead he held off his invasion and continued growing Germany into a bigger and bigger industrial juggernaut, funding research and development into a number of Wunderwaffen's  like the Sturer Emil, the super panzer, the Focke-Wulf Ta 28,the now infamous Horten Ho 229, Horten H.XVIII, and the atomic bomb. ...With Germany Prospering in an economic golden age

I don't think this would work, for the very simple reason that Germany's military buildup was fiscally unsustainable. Had the war not broken out in 1939, you'd see Germany's economy begin to crumble shortly thereafter.
 
I don't think this would work, for the very simple reason that Germany's military buildup was fiscally unsustainable. Had the war not broken out in 1939, you'd see Germany's economy begin to crumble shortly thereafter.

ugh...thats disapointing. So even with an American Trading partner the German economy would have collaped had there not been a WWII?
 
Yep, there is no way I can see this happening. The thing that many people forget is that the USA just doesn't suit Fascism taking root in any form we would recognise. America is too geographically, politically and ethnically diverse and has too powerful a Constitution to have far-right take over.

In addition, the only organisations that had even the slightest chance of taking over were strictly non-interventionist. With a few exceptions, most historical American far-right groups had a libertarian bent that renders the idea of a Washington-Berlin Axis next to impossible.

If the OT does wish to take this further, please please don't use Huey Long as the leader of the movement. Not that you would but...
 
Yep, there is no way I can see this happening. The thing that many people forget is that the USA just doesn't suit Fascism taking root in any form we would recognise. America is too geographically, politically and ethnically diverse and has too powerful a Constitution to have far-right take over.

In addition, the only organisations that had even the slightest chance of taking over were strictly non-interventionist. With a few exceptions, most historical American far-right groups had a libertarian bent that renders the idea of a Washington-Berlin Axis next to impossible.

If the OT does wish to take this further, please please don't use Huey Long as the leader of the movement. Not that you would but...

I wasn't planning on Making America Fasict, after the trade agreement we help each other mutually but don't trust each other. Hitler still wants to one day go to war with America it just happens to be a partnership of convinionce.
Building an American Empire May 1941-November 1942
1941 is a time of great change as America’s new internationalist policies alienate there former allies of Britain and France, and bring them into a new relationship with the German Reich. As the year goes on the once dieing American economy is brought back to life through trade with Germany and the manufacturing goods. With the years end the president with almost unanimous support from the Congress signed the Tripartite Pact, which in the eyes of Britain and France officially made the Americans enemies . The Japanese super fleet ordered into production by the emperor in 1939 is nearing completion and is large enough to be divided into two distinct fleets one for use against the Americans and another to invade the island continent of Australia. The American fortifications of the Hawaiian Islands (more specifically Pearl Harbor O’ahu) have made them in most Americans opinions the pinnacle of American success. The American 7th Fleet stationed at Pearl Harbor has been described as an indestructible force that would rain down thunder on the “Japs” is they ever tried to take the Philippians. Across the nation from steel mills to Midwestern farms the renewed American economy is booming. On March fifth the USS Montana the first of her Battleship class was christened she would remain at port in San Diego as a deterrent to any Japanese attack. Only two months later the USS Ohio and Maine Montana Class battleships were christened in San Francisco bay, though unlike the Montana they did not sit in harbor instead being sent to the Philippians to help discourage a Japanese attack. The American Military build up was in over drive, in July both USS Essex, and USS Intrepid Essex class aircraft carriers were completed ahead of schedule and sent to pearl Harbor. Ships weren’t the only thing the Americans had been building , using designs based off there German allies Tiger tank and Panzer VIII Maus the Americans Developed the M26 Pershing, and the T28 Super heavy Tank. American aircraft production and development also flourished in this age of American industry. With jet and rocket engine breakthroughs from the German Messerschmitt and the American P-59 complete and utter air superiority would belong to the Americans should
any Nation be foolish enough to try and stand against them. But what the Americans did not know was that the Japanese empire had a super fleet that that was on the move to launch a simultaneous attack on the British Commonwealth of Australia and Pearl Harbor. The secret American project known as the Manhattan Project had been suffering from several delays until they were able to convince Brilliant scientist Albert Einstein that although they were allied with the Germans they would never give them the weapon and that without the atomic bomb the Japanese could slaughter thousands in the Pacific and have no one to answer to. On the nineteenth of October Albert Einstein agreed to assist the Americans in developing the atomic bomb. The Germans had no idea that there allies had secretly begun work on the creation of an atomic bomb.
The Allied Powers 1942
By 1942 France had become the only power truly standing against the Super power that was Germany. Britain’s policy of appeasement was still greatly supported by the government, although the New British Nationalist party led by Winston Churchill had begun to gain support with there strong nationalistic ideals and hard line anti-German anti-American view. The French continued to fortify there borders in order to prevent a German Invasion which in there minds was an imminent threat the there security. The Soviet Union who had long been a member of the axis powers had retracted them selves from Pact after the Germans Allied themselves with the Americans who’s strong anti-communist anti-socialist views had been cemented after the debacle of the New Deal. Stalin had gone on to form a Pact with France that should Germany ever attack either nation the other would come to there comrades aid. The Soviets also had been watching the Japanese after they had conquered much of China and Mongolia. Fearing that the Japanese would attempt to attack them, the Soviets allied themselves with the British who’s superior Naval force could drive off a Japanese attack. All of the members of the Triple Alliance new that should they one day go to war with the German-American Alliance they would not stand much of a chance, so they began to pool resources into a secret project the dubbed “Project Firestorm” an so on the forth of June they began research into building an atomic weapon.

still to ASB.
 

CalBear

Moderator
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Alien Space Bats.

No other way without a POD that goes so far back that the entire Planet is different beyond all recognition.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
okay how about this one.
Seeds of War 1939-1940
Hitler for once in his life listened to his generals and did the smart thing i.e. not invade Poland. Instead he held off his invasion and continued growing Germany into a bigger and bigger industrial juggernaut, funding research and development into a number of Wunderwaffen's  like the Sturer Emil, the super panzer, the Focke-Wulf Ta 28,the now infamous Horten Ho 229, Horten H.XVIII, and the atomic bomb.

In order:

Without France, the Low Countries, and yes, his chunk of Poland, Hitler lacks the supplies, industrial base and manpower to create his juggernaut. He needs the mineral production, agriculture production, factory space and skilled & semi-skilled workers that are only available by taking the Western European States. He also NEEDS Coal, Oil, semi-skilled and unskilled manpower that is available in the East. No Greater Reich, no more powerful Reich

Sturer Emil? Why? without War on the Steppes there is no reason to imagine that a 128mm tank destroyer is even needed.

See above (BTW: Define "super panzer")

The Fw Ta-28??? Do you mean the Ta 283? In that case we are still waiting for the war to start.

Ho 229? When does the Reich invent the microchip and supercomputers? Until then this, LITERALLY, isn't going to fly.

H.XVIII? See above. Since this aircraft was supposed to have performance very close to the B-2 and since the B-2 went into service in 1993, I'd have to go with 1995.

The Atomic Bomb? Go into your kitchen. Take everything out of the refrigerator. Get a roll of aluminum foil and a butter knife. You now have a better change of creating an atom bomb by 2012 than the Reich did by 1955.

Tensions are high Europe but with the policy of appeasement still supported by Neville Chamberlain, as long as Germany doesn't attack "peace in our time" will remain. Germany's ally the empire of Japan on the other hand is as the years go by becoming more and more aggressive. In there barbarism in Indochina has lead the Americans to end the U.S.-Japan Commercial treaty in 1939, angering the Empire of the Sun greatly.

Uh... Indochina is French. Without an Occupied/Vichy puppet France the Japanese aren't getting anywhere CLOSE to Indochina.

The Japanese Seek help from there ally Germany hoping that the Germans will assist them in taking control of the Pacific and crush the Americans for there insult. With Germany Prospering in an economic golden age and with the Jewish Ghetto's, and labor camps working out nicely the German Reich sees no reason to instigate a war with a nation on the other side of the world which was in an economic age that resembled that of post WWI Germany. By ignoring a cry for help from there allies Germany had alienated them and within two months the Empire of the Sun withdrew from the Tripartite Pact. The Empire Continued Ravaging Indochina but had also begun constructing a massive fleet for which to make the Americans pay for there insolence.

Ummm... You do realize the the IJN effectively bankrupt the Empire as was right? That the only real source of hard currency to Japan WAS the United States from roughly 1935 onward? That the United States was THE supplier of oil and scrap (BTW: Scrap isn't used because it is cheap, it is critical to the manufacture of quality steel, no matter how much iron ore you may have) to Japan? That in bankrupting itself building up the Combined Fleet, the Japanese STILL only managed to create a Navy about half the size of the USN, despite an American Congress that pre Fall of France was giving out money with an eyedropper?


Crumbling America 1937-April 1941
The Americans had fallen victim to a recession in 1937 and had yet to come out of it, without the second world war to spur the economy into overdrive through manufacturing the Americans had fallen and fallen hard. The Socialist policies of the Roosevelt administration had failed to revitalize the once great nation and it looked as if the country would never get back on its feet.
Socialist policies????

Roosevelt’s attempt to grab the party nomination a third time failed miserably losing it to the man who had been able to get him elected the first time James Farley. Even with a new face the Democrats still were unable to win the 1940 election losing to the Republican candidate Arthur H. Vandenberg who had strongly opposed both the first and second New Deals put forth by Roosevelt.
This the same man who barely held on to his Senate Seat in 1934?

As a modified internationalist he saw that the only way for America to flourish again was for it to get back out into the world community, make allies and trading partners, that would buy American goods. The Germany had once been the Americans enemy, but as an industrial behemoth it was a tempting ally over the British who had done little to help the Americans. Vandenberg had the vision to see the see that the Japanese were growing more and more hostile and so only two months after his election he puts forth a bill that will make Pearl Harbor the most fortified American harbor in the entire world. To help pay for the project Vandenberg proposes an economic and commercial treaty between the U.S. and Germany. Hitler sees the potential of the Americans and on April 3, 1941 the German-American Trade Agreement is signed into law.

Is it still to ASB?

I think the Too ASB part is self explanatory don't you?

Just as a note: Many of the folks who post here are serious history buffs (many a LOT more knowledgeable than me). It might be worthwhile to look a little closer at the economics of a POD, at the historical situations that a POD would create, and the long term situation/political lay-out of a region before posting something that alters one of the most discussed and most well trod areas of history (and AH as well) before you lay out a major T/L. It requires a lot more than a couple names and a WI in front for a T/L to stand up. Speaking from experience, even when you HAVE done all that, you will be amazed at how little you actually have considered.

Keep posting, that is the way to learn, but altering the political landscape of the Planet with a POD that only goes back four years may be a bit ambitious as a starter.:)
 
The Socialist policies of the Roosevelt administration had failed to revitalize the once great nation and it looked as if the country would never get back on its feet

Stopped reading right there. If you think that the Roosevelt administration pursued 'Socialist' policies, then [1] you don't have a grasp of what the New Deal did and [2] that it's implementation actually saved American capitalism from a fascist state that would have cooperated would Germany or Italy, which, could very well be a fixture for your timeline idea.

The only way that I see possible for the U.S. to actually join the Axis powers is to remove democracy in the United States, which requires no New Deal. Either Zangara takes out FDR in 1933, leading to the terrible Garner administration likely followed by a terrible Taft administration or a fascist coup, or the 'Business Plot' organizes itself better and chooses a figurehead who isn't a socialist.

For originality, I'd go with the latter. Have the 'Business Plot' succeed in overthrowing Roosevelt and installing a fascist government led by Lindbergh or Eddie Rickenbacker or whoever. Then have that fascist government cooperate closely with Hitler and Mussolini, blah blah. If you want an interesting twist, have Japan join the Allies and keep the Pacific War from OTL. Japan gets taken down by the Fascist US, Germany and Italy take out Britain, France, the USSR, whathaveyou.

In the end, you probably end up with a Cold War between the world's leading fascist powers, the United States and Germany.
 

Markus

Banned
okay how about this one.
Seeds of War 1939-1940
Hitler for once in his life listened to his generals and did the smart thing i.e. not invade Poland. Instead he held off his invasion and continued growing Germany into a bigger and bigger industrial juggernaut,...

In addition to what CalBear said I´d like to remind you Germany was running out of foreign currency in 1939, the economy was beginning to overheat and the first signs of inflation could be seen. Still, Germany was not much ahead of the UK and France -if at all- and the two powers were rapidly gearing up for war. In the long run the balance of power would have shifted in the Allies favour.
 
For originality said:
I was trying to make America an axis power without getting rid of democracy but if every one is super posotive that it can't be done then I guess I'll have to persue it through a facist form.
Actually I was going to have the Japenese Discover the the Oil fields in Manchuria to help it with it's production of it's super fleet, I was then going to have it launch its attack on Australia and Pearl Harbor which would plung the world into a war with the empire of the sun. needless to say it would end badly for the Japenes, but based on my knowlodge of there atomic bomb program (they were originally going to test there first atomic bomb two days after the US dropped our first bomb on them) I was going to have the Japenese attempt to stop the onslaught of a Russian invasion with the use of an atomic bomb, which would have provoked Vandenberg to drop the bomb on Japan. with it revealed that America has the bomb and never told Germany the Alliance would begin to frey as the two nation start to grow more and more apart. Germany starts to go under economically only two years after the war and asks the US for economic aid. The US gives them some but actually wants Germany to go under so that they can be the only super power. Germany has no choice but to take Poland and attack France. This European war would fallow a simillar plot as OTL WWII. thats What I had happen but sense the US not being an Axis power seems like the only possobility I guess my alt is doomed to fail, how depressing.
 

CalBear

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I was trying to make America an axis power without getting rid of democracy but if every one is super posotive that it can't be done then I guess I'll have to persue it through a facist form.
Actually I was going to have the Japenese Discover the the Oil fields in Manchuria to help it with it's production of it's super fleet, I was then going to have it launch its attack on Australia and Pearl Harbor which would plung the world into a war with the empire of the sun. needless to say it would end badly for the Japenes,
Did you even READ what was written by everyone?

but based on my knowlodge of there atomic bomb program (they were originally going to test there first atomic bomb two days after the US dropped our first bomb on them)
Which it appears is based on a poorly researched and sensationally presented History Channel program that was beyond ludicrous

I was going to have the Japenese attempt to stop the onslaught of a Russian invasion with the use of an atomic bomb, which would have provoked Vandenberg to drop the bomb on Japan. with it revealed that America has the bomb and never told Germany the Alliance would begin to frey as the two nation start to grow more and more apart. Germany starts to go under economically only two years after the war and asks the US for economic aid. The US gives them some but actually wants Germany to go under so that they can be the only super power. Germany has no choice but to take Poland and attack France. This European war would fallow a simillar plot as OTL WWII. thats What I had happen but sense the US not being an Axis power seems like the only possobility I guess my alt is doomed to fail, how depressing.

Gee, ya think?

BTW: As someone who is spelling challenged himself, I would recommend use of the spell checker before you post.
 
For originality, I'd go with the latter. Have the 'Business Plot' succeed in overthrowing Roosevelt and installing a fascist government led by Lindbergh or Eddie Rickenbacker or whoever. Then have that fascist government cooperate closely with Hitler and Mussolini, blah blah. If you want an interesting twist, have Japan join the Allies and keep the Pacific War from OTL. Japan gets taken down by the Fascist US, Germany and Italy take out Britain, France, the USSR, whathaveyou.

In the end, you probably end up with a Cold War between the world's leading fascist powers, the United States and Germany.

A few thoughts. What makes whoever you're proposing a fascist, and an expansionist fascist at that?

Fundamentally I think Fascism is too foreign, and Americans have too much faith in democracy, for fascism to grow in the 1930s.
 
Did you even READ what was written by everyone?

Which it appears is based on a poorly researched and sensationally presented History Channel program that was beyond ludicrous



Gee, ya think?

BTW: As someone who is spelling challenged himself, I would recommend use of the spell checker before you post.

I had written the timeline out long before I had ever joined this forum I was simply stating what I had written, you already said it couldn't happen without major asb interferance you don't have to be so rude about it.

There was a History Channel program on it? whats It called? Even if it is as you said poorly researched I would like to watch it.

Sorry the stupid spell ckecker isn't working and I type fast so I don't really pay attention to the spelling, I will fix it, once again I am really sorry about the spelling errors.
 
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