What alternate history ideas you wish they were used more often?

Germany and Poland have a way better relationship a few years after WWI. The Nazis never took over Germany, Germany and Poland become allies and Hungary joined the alliance. Not only a military alliance, but also a culturally
I never see that in AH work but could be very interesting to work through like imagine if the Soviet Union invaded Poland instead of Germany who never become fascist. Where are they allowed a dozen of Polish refugees into Germany and allowed polish soldiers to join their ranks the fight of Communism.

Hell maybe even help hungarians when the Soviets tried to invade them like with Poland
A German-Polish-Hungarian friendship TL would be really interesting.
As much this interesting scenario would be, a German friendship on the scale of Polish Hungarian friendship? Nah likely a warm relationship but nothing more than that.

Remember Germany subjugate, assimilize and colonize the Polish Nation for centuries so it might be a little bit time to get that settle through.
 
A Russian Warsaw-pact equivalent centered around the Middle East would be interesting because the difference between Russia and its subject nations would be even greater than that of Eastern Europe
 
Germany and Poland have a way better relationship a few years after WWI. The Nazis never took over Germany, Germany and Poland become allies and Hungary joined the alliance. Not only a military alliance, but also a culturally.
A German-Polish-Hungarian friendship TL would be really interesting.
Damn. I would LOVE such a scenario! Poland and Germany standing side by side, respecting and maybe even liking each other. Plus Hungary hopping in and joining the party. What a neat thought!

On the topic of colonization, Portugal being able to conquer Australia and/or South Africa would be really interesting. Together with Brazil, this would result in a heavily Lusophone Southern Hemisphere. Even better if you manage to throw in Portuguese North America (Not impossible although unlikely).
As some language historians have said: English is the lingua franca because North America speaks it. Now imagine that Portuguese is the biggest language in North America
A Portuguese, instead of French Quebec would be really, really nice to see. I like it!
I also thought about a Portuguese (West-) Australia a few times. Would be really interesting, indeed. Or Portuguese Argentina (and British (and Anglophone oc) Uruguay) ....
 
Black Death kills off huge amounts of mainland Europe's population - England suffers but nowhere near as much as OTL when the King declares all boats to be turned back to France/continent and 'England shall seal her borders'.

Leaves England the strongest Kingdom left at the end of the plague - the middle eastern powers are beginning to pick their way into devastated W. Europe. Can England nab a chunk before they clash?
 

DocBen

Banned
Lmao

Anyone can put videos of nonsense on YouTube. Prove it with real evidence and actual scientific citations.
See, that's your problem. You're thinking in terms of OTL science, OTL civilization, and OTL institutions and philosophies.

That's what I mean when I say that most alternate histories are too close to OTL, and even when the POD is back in time far enough, they converge in the modern period to be close to OTL again, with television and everything. You people are running out of ideas, because you limit your perception to what the OTL civilization is capable of, but you have no way of knowing what an alternate civilization is capable of. You cannot judge based on OTL society if you want to write the story of a timeline in which science, technology, social structures, are completely different.

I would like to see completely different timelines. There are a lot of alternate histories which are like OTL but with one or two things different. Such as if the Soviet Union won the cold war, and the Western world fell apart, that is only one degree of separation from OTL. I'm talking about multiple degrees of separation, such as taking an ancient POD, and developing it into the 21st century. Talk about huge changes in religion, culture, technology, science, and even ethnic composition. It is more than certain that they would be more advanced than us in some fields of science, and lag behind us in other fields of science, and they would discover still other fields of science that we would never have even considered.

Red Flood and TNO do a good job in creating completely different timelines, such as the Rurikids, the Holy Russian Empire, the Realm of Shambhala, the Avatar State. And that is only in a POD at the start of the 20th century! Imagine what kind of alternate worlds you can create with a POD even farther back in time! Most alternate history authors are too timid to even consider the possibilities. They might think that any timelines which diverge from OTL very radically would be perceived as unrealistic. The truth is that all timelines are relative, and there is no yard stick to measure whether a timeline is realistic or not. OTL certainly should not be used as such a yard stick. If you've studied chaos theory before, you would know that timelines are more likely to diverge rather than converge. In fact I think that OTL is one of the more unrealistic timelines, if you take a step back to look at the big picture of all the craziness that's happening in the world today.
 
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See, that's your problem. You're thinking in terms of OTL science, OTL civilization, and OTL institutions and philosophies.

That's what I mean when I say that most alternate histories are too close to OTL, and even when the POD is back in time far enough, they converge in the modern period to be close to OTL again, with television and everything. You people are running out of ideas, because you limit your perception to what the OTL civilization is capable of, but you have no way of knowing what an alternate civilization is capable of. You cannot judge based on OTL society if you want to write the story of a timeline in which science, technology, social structures, are completely different.

I would like to see completely different timelines. There are a lot of alternate histories which are like OTL but with one or two things different. Such as if the Soviet Union won the cold war, and the Western world fell apart, that is only one degree of separation from OTL. I'm talking about multiple degrees of separation, such as taking an ancient POD, and developing it into the 21st century. Talk about huge changes in religion, culture, technology, science, and even ethnic composition. It is more than certain that they would be more advanced than us in some fields of science, and lag behind us in other fields of science, and they would discover still other fields of science that we would never have even considered.

Red Flood and TNO do a good job in creating completely different timelines, such as the Rurikids, the Holy Russian Empire, the Realm of Shambhala, the Avatar State. And that is only in a POD at the start of the 20th century! Imagine what kind of alternate worlds you can create with a POD even farther back in time! Most alternate history authors are too timid to even consider the possibilities. They might think that any timelines which diverge from OTL very radically would be perceived as unrealistic. The truth is that all timelines are relative, and there is no yard stick to measure whether a timeline is realistic or not. OTL certainly should not be used as such a yard stick. If you've studied chaos theory before, you would know that timelines are more likely to diverge rather than converge. In fact I think that OTL is one of the more unrealistic timelines, if you take a step back to look at the big picture of all the craziness that's happening in the world today.
Another added problem is that too often people who want something "completely non-OTL" mean "I want something that looks great on film and I don't care if it doesn't make any sense".

Which is ironically exemplified by the fact that at least one of your examples is a TL created solely in the name of "meme value" and "I want to be an edgelord", and that it epitomizes all the clichés ever and ever to a point. in that he only needs to add magic and maybe that way it would even make more sense. But since the author took to lying that TNO is realistic, people keep repeating it even if it doesn't make sense.

So I think that's the main reason a lot of people don't like stories that diverge too radically: the perception, often grounded in reality, that their authors are more concerned with throwing things in than they think are true. look great than to do something interesting or plausible. (It doesn't help that in many cases critics have their own biases.)
 
Another added problem is that too often people who want something "completely non-OTL" mean "I want something that looks great on film and I don't care if it doesn't make any sense".

Which is ironically exemplified by the fact that at least one of your examples is a TL created solely in the name of "meme value" and "I want to be an edgelord", and that it epitomizes all the clichés ever and ever to a point. in that he only needs to add magic and maybe that way it would even make more sense. But since the author took to lying that TNO is realistic, people keep repeating it even if it doesn't make sense.

So I think that's the main reason a lot of people don't like stories that diverge too radically: the perception, often grounded in reality, that their authors are more concerned with throwing things in than they think are true. look great than to do something interesting or plausible. (It doesn't help that in many cases critics have their own biases.)
When one diverts so much, that is basically writing it's science fiction/fantasy novel and not Alternate History? Is a good question in my opinion at least
 
When one diverts so much, that is basically writing it's science fiction/fantasy novel and not Alternate History? Is a good question in my opinion at least
My experience is that if something diverges too far from OTL, the general reaction is to protest the fact that it is so different that the author could very well be making everything up.

Now the nonsensical rants have been added about how that would never work "because economics" and that there would eventually be economic reforms anyway, which would in turn trigger political reforms, aimed at converging with OTL.

I remember that in a discussion about the Taiping Celestial Empire someone suggested that "because of economics" the Western colonial powers would focus all their efforts on propping up and sustaining the Celestial Empire because to that extent they cared about trade with China. That in no way would it happen that they imitated what they had done with the Qing Empire (all united to screw China).

And that, if anything, the Celestial Empire would immediately initiate democratic, economic, and political reforms, to become OTL Republic of China as soon as Hong croases. Because of course everyone would immediately realize that a fanatical theocratic system is economically unsustainable and how very important it is to be part of a globalized economy where your national survival depends on trading with your enemies. And no one will ever think that's a bad idea, oh no.
 
When one diverts so much, that is basically writing it's science fiction/fantasy novel and not Alternate History? Is a good question in my opinion at least
Going back to it, I am a very uncreative person and I have some fears people think what I do is stupid.
Tho in alternate history I have some concept - if the PoD doesn't avoid the existance of a person, that person will exist, but is going to probably be put in very different scenarios.
So that way I just dont invent fictional characters for alternate history (oc's as someone would say).

An idea I had recently is Iberian-Galician Fidel Castro, just to put into 'context' how said idea works.
 
Going back to it, I am a very uncreative person and I have some fears people think what I do is stupid.
Tho in alternate history I have some concept - if the PoD doesn't avoid the existance of a person, that person will exist, but is going to probably be put in very different scenarios.
So that way I just dont invent fictional characters for alternate history (oc's as someone would say).

An idea I had recently is Iberian-Galician Fidel Castro, just to put into 'context' how said idea works.
Heh, interesting... I'm toying around with a Fidel who, thwarted in his attempt to overthrow the government of the Commonwealth of Cuba, flees to Republican (!) Spain (after all, his father was Galician IIRC) and achieves some notoriety there...
 
Heh, interesting... I'm toying around with a Fidel who, thwarted in his attempt to overthrow the government of the Commonwealth of Cuba, flees to Republican (!) Spain (after all, his father was Galician IIRC) and achieves some notoriety there...
Yep, I know the Galician bit.
My idea is that their family never got to Cuba - the island became part of the Second Mexican Empire (XIX century thing) and Iberia suffered a Communist Revolution in the ends of the XIX century
 

DocBen

Banned
My experience is that if something diverges too far from OTL, the general reaction is to protest the fact that it is so different that the author could very well be making everything up.
You don't get my point. My point is: since when was OTL a yardstick for judging the realistic of other timelines? I think that there are more diverging timelines than converging. I also think that there are more dystopian timelines and utopian ones. There are more crazy worlds than sane ones. It takes more of an effort to build than to destroy. I know one thing about humanity, their tendency to be brutal, destructive, and not so very sane, and it takes a ginormous amount of effort for any civilization to possibly overcome these inherent downward trends.

OTL is looking pretty ASB as well. A small part of the world, Western Europe, being able to conquer almost every single other civilizations, in the Americas, Africa, and Asia from the 16th to 19th centuries? Totally Europe wank.

And if you had told me about the Great Reset a mere 5 years ago, I would have dismissed it as very unlikely, but look where we are now! Well now I know that mass death scenarios, once regarded as ASB scenarios, may happen quite a bit more often than we maybe thinking. There are decades when more things change than in the preceding several hundred years, that's for sure.

I am also within the category of people who think that the collapse of the Soviet Union without even putting up much of a fight, would be extremely unlikely. If you would have mentioned this during the cold war, it would be regarded as ASB or American wank. So OTL is already looking ASB, by OTL standards! In my opinion something like Red Alert would have been more likely.

What you said about Red Flood and TNO being unrealistic in your opinion, my answer would be the following. In periods of stability you would see very little change. In periods of instability or chaos, you have a much greater chance of timeline disturbances. If you are familiar with chaos theory, you would know that a small little disturbances, such as you killing a butterfly, would have drastically diverging effects the farther forward in time you go. So in periods when "Pax Romana" is disturbed, you will have a splintering of timelines. Indeed you have more different timelines splintering in periods of instability than in periods of stability. The start of the 20th century was one such period, which is where Red Flood and TNO came from. The end of the 20th century and start of the 21st century were another such period. And the 2020s are a third such period of instability. And each such period of instability generated diverging timelines.



PS:
I personally believe that the Multiverse is akin to a computer simulation which traces out all possible occurring scenarios. Meaning that as long as it's not prohibited by the laws of physics, it will happen. Michio Kaku wrote in his book, "everything that isn't prohibited is mandatory". Meaning that the Multiverse will eventually simulate even very unlikely timelines, to come into being. The implication here is that every single timeline that we write, even the Draka ones, exists somewhere in the Multiverse, and is no less real than OTL, complete with living souls. These conjectures are in line with modern theories of physics. Einstein was wrong, God does indeed "play dice" with the world, and every event, no matter how unlikely, will occur. The Multiverse isn't even logically coherent. It doesn't have to be though. There is no anthropocentric principle that reality adheres to, to conform with the skeptic's expectations of what reality should be like.
 
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Yep, I know the Galician bit.
My idea is that their family never got to Cuba - the island became part of the Second Mexican Empire (XIX century thing) and Iberia suffered a Communist Revolution in the ends of the XIX century
Surely your Cuba wasn't conquered by force for Mexican Empire in 1915 after his control by the Confederated States? XD
 
OTL is looking pretty ASB as well. A small part of the world, Western Europe, being able to conquer almost every single other civilizations, in the Americas, Africa, and Asia from the 16th to 19th centuries? Totally Europe wank.
I have seen the argument that WW2 is the most fictional part of OTL due to some of the leaders names
Stalin = Man of Steel
Churchill = (like) Church-hill (Anglican-english churchs and shit like that)
Charles de Gaulle = From Gaul (France)
There are decades when more things change than in the preceding several hundred years, that's for sure.
Literally a Lenin quote by the way
 
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