Western Roman Empire Restored in the 18th Century

How possible could it be for Louis XIV to unite France, Spain, Portugal, Naples, Holland, Belgium, and Sicily if he was victorious in the War of Spanish Succession? The concept of such a superpower is mind-boggling, rivaling the power Rome had over Europe 1000 years ago. But the question is, could it even be stable? I mean, it seems like after his death. The empire would be so big it would collapse over its own weight. But if it survived... Oh man Louis could easily claim the title of emperor and just conquer all of Germany and Italy!

I'd love to see a TL of that!
 
No.If Louis XIV won the war,his grandson Philippe would get the full Spanish inheritance.If the Duke of Burgundy's death isn't butterflied,then the future Louis XV would get only France.France isn't going to be united with the Spanish Empire unless the Duke of Burgundy's line died out.
 
Ok so lets say if their house goes the way of the Starks and is wiped out. Then what?

Seriously man, so many asses to be kicked!
 
1) it would be a French empire, not a Western Roman one, politically, realistically, culturally, historically.
2) the territory you mention doesn't even include Rome. Hard to claim to be the WRE if you don't have Rome.
 
1) it would be a French empire, not a Western Roman one, politically, realistically, culturally, historically.
2) the territory you mention doesn't even include Rome. Hard to claim to be the WRE if you don't have Rome.

Germans claimed to be "Roman", so I don't see while France can't claim to be by the rights of Charlamagne. Louis's Spain/France dream team could just steamroll Italy and gain the pope's support.
 
I'd say Napoleon has a much better shot of recreating the territory, but even that is a long shot, and is just barely in the 19th century.
 
Ok so lets say if their house goes the way of the Starks and is wiped out. Then what?

Seriously man, so many asses to be kicked!

Another war where started with the other powers send an ultimatum asking Philippe to give one of the thrones to his younger sons or else.
 
Germans claimed to be "Roman", so I don't see while France can't claim to be by the rights of Charlamagne. Louis's Spain/France dream team could just steamroll Italy and gain the pope's support.

There was a "Holy Roman Empire" that originally covered almost all of Western Christendom, and later was essentlally restricted to Germany. But
1) it claimed to be a different thing that the Western Roman Empire, although related, and
2) originally it DID include Italy and most of the territory of the Western Empire (in particular, all of Italy).
 

B-29_Bomber

Banned
There was a "Holy Roman Empire" that originally covered almost all of Western Christendom, and later was essentlally restricted to Germany. But
1) it claimed to be a different thing that the Western Roman Empire, although related, and
2) originally it DID include Italy and most of the territory of the Western Empire (in particular, all of Italy).

The HRE was a realm created via the Pope coronating Charlemagne as the Western Emperor(you can argue whether or not the Pope had legitimacy in doing so; certainly the Eastern Emperors did). It was called the HOLY Roman Empire because it was the Pope giving out the title.
 
The HRE was a realm created via the Pope coronating Charlemagne as the Western Emperor(you can argue whether or not the Pope had legitimacy in doing so; certainly the Eastern Emperors did). It was called the HOLY Roman Empire because it was the Pope giving out the title.
Assuming that France and Spain were unified under one individual,if they really wanted it,wouldn't they be able to force the pope to grant them the title of Roman Emperor instead and declare the HRE a false Roman Empire?
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
At the very least they would need to find something to legitimise their claim. Recapturing some of the artefacts from the WRE - or offering to retake Western Africa for the Pope in Rome, both of these would be big bargaining chips to get the Pope to grant the title. For whatever purpose it may have.

Any way that could suggest legitimacy is the lynch pin. Perhaps descent from one of the Eastern Roman Emperors? They had branch families that survived in Italy, it would be very tenuous, but then at least there can be a claim that they descend from the Imperial Purple.

The only issue is that the Pope won't be willing to let the Neo-WRE exist without being strong-armed. Technically the Pope would have to acknowledge his superiority - and therefore would want to award the title to a weaker HRE, rather than the strong Neo-WRE. A campaign to take and unite Italy however - marching into Rome may be unpopular with the other Kings - but that would certainly assure the Pope agrees. Although, there could always be a schism.

Man, I don't think I even know half the complications that resurrecting that title would cause to Europe. Especially as it gives a loose legitimacy to reconquer the Med. Perversely, the Pope might encourage that to avert being strong-armed. Take Egypt, Take Greece, etc - this could lead to colossal wars if the Pope matters to the Neo-WRE.

I look forward to the new Capital though, you can't well be the Western Roman Empire in Paris or Madrid - Rome itself is a great nominal capital, but a real Administrative Capital in southern France could be a beautiful place. Neo-Roman frippery, combined with modern-ish technology. I can just see a cannon decorated with an Eagles head, or a royal guard in legionary kit.
 

scholar

Banned
No.If Louis XIV won the war,his grandson Philippe would get the full Spanish inheritance.If the Duke of Burgundy's death isn't butterflied,then the future Louis XV would get only France.France isn't going to be united with the Spanish Empire unless the Duke of Burgundy's line died out.

The whole reason why the crowns remained separate was precisely because Louis did not win the war of Spanish Inheritance.
 
The whole reason why the crowns remained separate was precisely because Louis did not win the war of Spanish Inheritance.

France didn't lose either. France didn't get everything it wanted, but all things considered they managed to obtain the main price for their candidate. The Austrian Habsburgs managed to get a good consolation price and even the house of Savoy got a bit. If I needed to rank them then I'd say 1 Bourbon, 2 Austrian Habsburgs, since it was an overall Habsburg loss (after the extinction of the Spanish Habsburgs) and 3 Savoy.
 
The whole reason why the crowns remained separate was precisely because Louis did not win the war of Spanish Inheritance.
That's just completely wrong.Louis XIV already decided the crowns would remain separate even before the war started.What's being disputed here is whether Philippe still has any rights to the French throne or what territories should be given to the Habsburgs as compensation,as well as the fact that the Habsburgs aren't willing to let go of Spain without a fight.
 

scholar

Banned
That's just completely wrong.Louis XIV already decided the crowns would remain separate even before the war started.What's being disputed here is whether Philippe still has any rights to the French throne or what territories should be given to the Habsburgs as compensation,as well as the fact that the Habsburgs aren't willing to let go of Spain without a fight.
The reason why Philippe got the crown under the condition that it would never be joined with the Crown of France was precisely because of French intentions and other European Power's aversion to those intentions. Louis also very clearly believed that even if the crowns remained separate, that he was still in command of Spain and its resources through Philippe.
 
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