Western Europe's place in a Nazi Europe?

Wendigo

Banned
If the Third Reich won the war and ruled Europe from France to the Urals and managed a peace with the WAllies, where would Western European nations and their populations fit into the Nazi New Order?

By Western Europe I mean the Low Countries, France, and Norway.

How harsh would Nazi rule and occupation be?

Would there be any resistance after over a decade of Nazi rule or would the population come to accept their fate since the UK/US isn't coming to save them?

How successful would the Reich be at indoctrinating Western Europeans into believing National Socialist doctrine?

Would Western Eurole be allowed some form of autonomy eventually?
 
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I'm fairly sure Hitler and the Nazis has no serious qualms with the Western Europeans. Sure, there was revanchism for losing WW1, especially against France, but they were only a single step lower on the racial pyramid than the Aryan-Scandinavians according to them.

You'd probably see Alsace-Lorraine, Luxembourg, some parts of Belgium, Danish Schleswig and maybe the Netherlands incorporated into the Greater Reich as German territory, while the rest of the occupied territory will quickly be reorganized into friendly regimes. Norway under Vidkun Quisling, France under Jacques Doriot (Petain was too independent for the Nazis), etc.

Probably not complete puppets like the General Government and Slovakia, just loyal fascist leaders installed with some pro-German treaties for trade, commerce and military access and overall German domination in a sphere of influence. Obviously following the German doctrine, but I'd wager the Nazis would be willing to turn a blind eye and allow the puppet leaders to have at least a little different thought in their regimes.

There might be a European Confederation kind of thing salvaged from the Axis to keep Western Europe in line, too.

As for indoctrination in Western Europe... well, it really depends on who runs the show in each country, I suppose.
 
You might see the Flemish speaking part of Belgium incorporated into Großdeutschland along with Holland, Luxembourg, Alsace-Lorraine (and possibly some other bits of France). The French speaking part of Belgium might be incorporated into France. All of Denmark might be incorporated into Großdeutschland. Those countries left "independent" will be at least as much of client states as those of the WP were to the USSR if not more. Basing rights for German armed forces, local armed forces using mostly German equipment, doctrine, and in case of any conflict under German command - and of course limited in what arms they have. The economic systems/currencies of these countries would be tied to German interests in such a way as to favor the German economy and industries. Any overseas colonies of the conquered nations that are not occupied by the US or UK will be de facto if not de jure German property, for German economic exploitation and military bases.

Of course the racial laws will apply throughout these countries, they will have their own concentration camps for criminals and dissidents. Cultural leadership will come from Germany, and I expect that German language instruction will be mandatory from an early age so even those who end school at 14 or so have a basic working knowledge of German. Any "educated" people will be fluent in German in addition to their "native" language.

I can see the Germans using troops from these countries to rotate through any anti-partisan or border actions to blood them and , of course, take casualties to spare German troops. While "indoctrination" will still have nationalistic elements, all education/indoctrination will be supervised by German authorities and stress "Germanic/Aryan" superiority.
 
Probably same position post war communist regimes were with Soviet Union. Of course cleaned of Jews, Gypsies and possible Slavic element.
 
Would the Nazis split up France/Britain so as to better control them? Perhaps Occitania for France and Scotland for Britain?
 
Would the Nazis split up France/Britain so as to better control them? Perhaps Occitania for France and Scotland for Britain?

There was little indication of the Nazis trying to do that OTL especially since there was no strong separatist sentiment in either of those places.

I would be curious about how big an army the Western European satellites would be allowed to have since the ratio of France to Germany in terms of population and industry is far more even then the ratio of any of the Warsaw Pact members to the USSR.
 

Wendigo

Banned
I would be curious about how big an army the Western European satellites would be allowed to have since the ratio of France to Germany in terms of population and industry is far more even then the ratio of any of the Warsaw Pact members to the USSR.
This was explored in AANW:
With the defeat of the Soviet field armies and the apparent Allies inability to make an immediate entry into occupied Europe Berlin gradually altered the structure of its own forces and began to make increasing use of the military organizations and/or available manpower of their conquests. In this structure there were two different types of non Reich forces existed, National forces and “Pan-European” units.

National forces were fielded by nations that had more or less joined the German wars voluntarily, these were chiefly forces from Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Italy, Hungary, Norway, Romania, and Slovakia, with France joining these early allied states in late 1945, The National forces had notional independent command under their respective governments, but all were obligated to a greater or lesser degree, to follow Berlin’s specific directions in military matters. All of the National forces were able to, if they desired, manufacture their own weapons and other equipment, including in the case of Italy and France, their own aircraft and warship designs. Overall, the National forces, and their home countries, gave many of the appearances of independent states, at least on the surface. In actual fact, each of these countries were utterly dominated politically by Germany, with political leaders selected by Nazi Party leaders in each country with the final approval of Berlin necessary before any changes were made. Each independent European ally also had its own secret police force, based on the SS Gestapo, and staffed by fanatical fascists who often were more radical than their German counterparts, which crushed any signs of dissent and generally maintained a reign of terror under the oversight of SS Headquarters in Berlin. National military forces were also generally deployed outside their home country (French troops, as an example, were the most numerous garrison forces in southern Italy and Sicily) which reduced the chances of any sort of unfortunate Nationalist uprisings, although these did occasionally occur only to be crushed with swift brutality. While the overall quality and morale of the Nation forces was uneven, all were more than sufficient to work as fortress troops with some units being equal to any pure “Old German” formation.
 
Would the Nazis split up France/Britain so as to better control them? Perhaps Occitania for France and Scotland for Britain?

Hitler intended to keep Britain whole I believe, he had great respect for the British Empire and fantcized about Britian and Germany smashing the United States (non-starters for obvious reasons). In regards to France I think Himmler wanted to establish some SS state of Burgundy which was probably a non-starter. But apart from that and taking border territories that Germany claimed, I think France would be largely kept in once piece for the sake of simplicity.
 
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The SS "country" Himmler had fantasized about might actually happen. The French could not object, and clearing out as much of the local population as they wanted to would not present a problem for the SS. Other elements in the Nazi government might see this as a good thing to keep Himmler's attention there as opposed to elsewhere.
 

Wendigo

Banned
The SS "country" Himmler had fantasized about might actually happen. The French could not object, and clearing out as much of the local population as they wanted to would not present a problem for the SS. Other elements in the Nazi government might see this as a good thing to keep Himmler's attention there as opposed to elsewhere.
How large would the SS state have been?
 
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