West of I-Shaphan

Approx. 700 BCE.

Abiezer pats the Basenji dogs sitting next to him in his boat. They saw land, and the men were paddling eagerly to the sandbar. Although Kadmiel would protest and say this was a large Island, Abiezer saw nothing to say it was in fact an Island.

The water was reminiscent of the Nile from what sailors back in Baal Saphon would say about it. He heard that large animals dwelled in the river, with reeds thick as female hair on the banks.
Not so here, there were many large trees, many reminiscent of the ones in Baal Saphon. The looming copses stood like masts on a Greek ship. He paused for a moment looking at the brilliant white birds flying over head. They stared at him with luminescent yellow eyes. How could something that large travel in Shamayim's domain?

"In the Trees, there are storks!" a man, Dalphon, shouted. Abiezer turned his head quickly to behold an entire tree full of these creatures. All stared at the ungainly large boat. The men returned the stares. After a minute's pause, the men began paddling, and the storks returned to tending for their Chiclets.

A couple minutes later, the ship ran aground (upon what the men could not tell in the murky water). A sailor adjacent to Abiezer dipped his oar into the water. The Men watched the oar descend without the slightest sign of stopping. Finally the man’s hand met the water, and he pulled it from the water. Abiezer looked is awe at the depth of the water. It was at least as deep as the oar, and black as the pupil at the bottom.

“Go backwards, men.” Abiezer orders. With that, the men begin rowing opposite the way they had been only minutes earlier. “Head to the shoreline. We need to at least make a sacrifice to El Elyon and Athirat before returning to the sea.” The Men silently agreed, with Kadmiel being the only to groan. The Basenji next to Abiezer moans in response, and Abiezer snickers.

The shore was covered with leaf litter, which Abiezer almost hated to kneel in the slick decomposing crap, but he raised the Bass. Dalphon began carving the prayer into a plank of bark from a local trees. May El Elyon bless us upon our long Journey home, Athirat, please make this voyage a most safe one for all crew members on my ship. He lays the fish upon the ground along with a tablet.

Abiezer looked around the woods, to see a man peering back at Abiezer. His skin was quite tanned, almost a red rawhide. His brow provided shade for his eyes, with were small and a bit beady. His raven hair was long and down to his ears.

“You!” the man yells at the man. The Man’s eyes widen, and he bounds away. No doubt he was some sort of Arab man. He saw some once in Carthage. Those silly Bedouins and their odd ways of watching us Phoenicians, he thought. The Crew returned too their boat, and sailed down river.
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How do you like it so far? ASB?

Comment on any improvements.

 
Oh God Oh God Oh God!!! Can he do it! Can he succesfully create a Americas wank..... Mein gottt If this succeeds man you shall forever be immrotalized as the great Poster.;)Yahoo!!!!!!
 
LOVE IT!!! I've always been a fan of "Carthage Could've Found the Americas" stories, and this looks to be a great one! I do obviously have a few questions, the obvious one being the POD, is this a Carthage Triumphant scenario? Other then that, great job and I look foreward to more!
 
LOVE IT!!! I've always been a fan of "Carthage Could've Found the Americas" stories, and this looks to be a great one! I do obviously have a few questions, the obvious one being the POD, is this a Carthage Triumphant scenario? Other then that, great job and I look foreward to more!

The POD is if Phoenicians, in theirglory days, decided to Travel West and North (which is later). Carthage's fate however is...
 
I for one, do like Phoenician wanks (see sig, after all! :D)!

Go for it - it'd be difficult, if you ask me, to get the Phoenicians over in 700 BC, but I'm willing to let you take this further just out of its pure awesomeness!
 
Please more, the idea that the phonecians couldn't have found the Americas because they didn't have the proper sailing technology has always had a few holes for me. I would love to see what you come up with.
 
Please more, the idea that the phonecians couldn't have found the Americas because they didn't have the proper sailing technology has always had a few holes for me. I would love to see what you come up with.

From what I grasped about them was that the only thing standing in their way would be the oceanic desert that is the Mid-Atlantic Ocean. They could always bring something edible on the trip to atleast sustain them.
 
My question is though- North or South America? Carthage in Brazil would be great. Or have the new state straddle both oceans!

Have Hamilcar or Hannibal Barca become a great New World conqueror. Have Hanno the Navigator explore the New World.
 
Abiezer's boat travelled back out the mouth of the river, and back to one of the white beaches just beyond the mouth of the river. First the Basenjis leap off the boat, splashing playfully through the warm oceanwater. Abiezer gives the frollicking a grim and emotionless scorn. The Dogs could've cared less.

The men, Abiezer included, jump from the water and push the boat upon the white sand. The boat came to a stop upon a particularly high dune. the men panting in the hot midday sun. Kadmiel slaps his leather bandages serving as shoes, and sand streams out like water. "Ya'Elyon!" the man says astounded.

Aaron laughs and slaps the sole of his sandals. "Why haven't you got them, Stupid?" Kadmiel gives Aaron a roll-up-and-die look, with a red face contorted into a pout. Abiezer and a few other men however, had their focus upon the dense forest ahead. Now Baal Saphon had many forests, and the Lands South West of Chanan with the Gorillai had thick forest. But it was as warm as Chanan, with trees like Baal Saphon.

It puzzled Abiezer, who began a forward walk into the woods. He began to have the sneaking suspicion that the man spying upon the men was not infact a Bedouin man. If not who was it then?

Whomever it was, they'd probably encounter some of his kind on a trek inland. If no people or goods were to be found, the men would sail away to another location to find goods. The Land they are exploring now would probably fade into the background of their memories.

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Well, an Update.

They will most certainly get longer for those looking at me like I'm doing a half-ass job when you want a Massive Phoenixwank.

Should you have anything to comment upon, you know the routine.

Aufwedersehen!
 
Cool idea! Yeah, and I like the Carthaginians, too. Regular Carthaginian contact with the Americas seems plausible to me, but only rather later, and not without some nautical R&D first. I'll talk about how it can be done later; but first, problems:

o Sailors in the Med back then got rations not so much from onboat rations from their ships as from markets thrown up regularly on land for sailors. No doubt they had some stores for long trips like to Sicily and emergencies, but in general they weren't up to long trips. No doubt several Med galleys did get one way, with its crew mostly having eaten each other (yum, dog), but not with enough reliability to do much.

o Galleys were low-sided, which's bad for ocean sailing.

o The galleys were pretty small back then, and could carry less, too...

o 700's probably too soon after Carthage's foundation to be throwing tentacles THAT far.


So, what's the right way? If Carthage, late enough for Carthage to be rich, big, and have bigger ships, had developed Atlantic-going ships.

o Early european ship dev went in two waves, and it probably would've been similar for Carthage. First, Portugal's Prince Henry developed exploration ship, the small and fast caravel, then came wide exploration. Then, Spain developed a bigger ship for bigger-scale cargoes, the galleon, that was widely adopted for trading, settlement, and carrying armies.

o I think the caravel-equivalent exploration ship would've taken fiftyish years to develop, and a galleon-equivalent another fifty years.

o Seagoing vessels also need taller sides. You can decide if they would've stuck to oars or learned a bit about sails.

o The loss rate for galleons with their primitive nav tech and ration choice was still utterly vast, and it'd still be the same ITTL.

Sorry this' taken so long to post. I had this mostly done after your first post, but got busy and tired.
 
Cool idea! Yeah, and I like the Carthaginians, too. Regular Carthaginian contact with the Americas seems plausible to me, but only rather later, and not without some nautical R&D first. I'll talk about how it can be done later; but first, problems:

o Sailors in the Med back then got rations not so much from onboat rations from their ships as from markets thrown up regularly on land for sailors. No doubt they had some stores for long trips like to Sicily and emergencies, but in general they weren't up to long trips. No doubt several Med galleys did get one way, with its crew mostly having eaten each other (yum, dog), but not with enough reliability to do much.

o Galleys were low-sided, which's bad for ocean sailing.

o The galleys were pretty small back then, and could carry less, too...

o 700's probably too soon after Carthage's foundation to be throwing tentacles THAT far.


So, what's the right way? If Carthage, late enough for Carthage to be rich, big, and have bigger ships, had developed Atlantic-going ships.

o Early european ship dev went in two waves, and it probably would've been similar for Carthage. First, Portugal's Prince Henry developed exploration ship, the small and fast caravel, then came wide exploration. Then, Spain developed a bigger ship for bigger-scale cargoes, the galleon, that was widely adopted for trading, settlement, and carrying armies.

o I think the caravel-equivalent exploration ship would've taken fiftyish years to develop, and a galleon-equivalent another fifty years.

o Seagoing vessels also need taller sides. You can decide if they would've stuck to oars or learned a bit about sails.

o The loss rate for galleons with their primitive nav tech and ration choice was still utterly vast, and it'd still be the same ITTL.

Sorry this' taken so long to post. I had this mostly done after your first post, but got busy and tired.

Thank you, I shall edit that as soon as I can. And not to be nitpicky, but from what I gained from most places I gained information, many Phoenician settlements did infact act independently of Carthage.

For the sake of this thread, let us say these were some lucky ass men who will quickly perish...
 
West of I-Shaphan V.2

609 BC -Hibernia

Abiezer's boat travelled into the mouth of the river, and back to one of the white gravelly beaches just beyond the mouth of the river. First the Basenjis leap off the boat, splashing playfully through the warm oceanwater. Abiezer gives the frollicking a grim and emotionless scorn. The Dogs could've cared less.
The men, Abiezer included, jump from the water and push the boat upon the white gravel. The boat came to a stop upon a particularly high dune. The men panting in the hot midday sun. Kadmiel slaps his leather bandages serving as shoes, and sand streams out like water. "Ya'Elyon!" the man says astounded.

Aaron laughs and slaps the sole of his sandals. "Why haven't you got them, Stupid?" Kadmiel gives Aaron a roll-up-and-die look, with a red face contorted into a pout. Abiezer and a few other men however, had their focus upon the dense forest ahead.

They were supposed to circumnavigate I-Shaphan to find trade opprotunities, in the Path of Himilco. As they came North, the weather began to get cold. It was winter after all. But it never got that cold back in Carthage, and he could see his breath on some days. It puzzled Abiezer, who began a forward walk into the woods. He began to have the sneaking suspicion he had not landed in I-Shapan. They had landed there before, to restock food supplies.

Whomever it was, they'd probably encounter some of his kind on a trek inland. If no people or goods were to be found, the men would sail away to another location to find goods. The Land they are exploring now would probably fade into the background of their memories.

Daphon shouts. Abiezer runs forward with a dagger. Daphon was kneeling infront of a hill, and Abiezer joined him. There were a few houses made of stone, with a little wall around the settlement. Children frollicked, as smoke drifted from the huts. In a field not too far off, there were men tending to cattle. The children had brightly colored hair and light skin. But Abiezer knew they were atleast human, and could be traded with.
Abiezer ordered the men to fetch the wares (that had not been consumed on the voyage here). They assembled at the stone wall.

The Villager's reactions however, were less than friendly. The Women and children, fled to their homes, and the men amassed on the other side of the wall, ready to attack. Their leader, a man with pale skin and red hair, came to peer over the edge of the wall at the Phoenicians.

"Cad é do chuspóir anseo?" he shouts in his native tongue. It was almost lyrical, like Greeks when they recite poems.

Abiezer had no grasp of the words he spoke, but he laid the cases containing the Greek cheeses upon the ground just in front of the wall. He and his men then back away a few yards. The Men came out to bring the cheese roll in. The man examines the roll quite closely, doing everything but take a bite of it. His gaze falls upon Abiezer, who opens and closes his mouth in a manner suggesting eating the roll. The Man tears a chunk of and bite it.

It probably could've been better, but the taste was rich, like nothing the Celt had tasted before. He returned behind the wall, sharing it with the men, peering over once at Abiezer. They spoke in the unknown tongue, but Abiezer noticed the word "Samhain" being brought up every few sentences.

Finally the man came walking back, a smile upon his face. "Fan le haghaidh Samhain!" he says merrily.
Abiezer had no idea what the man was saying, but it seemed along the lines of Welcome, stay a while.

Upon the men's entrance into the village, the men saw a bonfire which seemed to have been burning for eons. They feasted, although they had gained little words from this festival. In the Morning, having traded their wares, sailed back to I-Shaphan, with sacks full of beef, onions, and a variety of Nuts.
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They are going to Ireland before America.

First they go to Ireland to refine their boating techniques, alright? BEFORE they discover America.

If you have anything to say about this TL, feel free to say it.

I assure you there will be no ASB.
 
Bumpity Bump on my fat ass

Abiezer presented the goods his men had aquired to merchants in Baal Shaphan, They took a hesitant bite of the onion. He cringed at first, quickly spitting out the skin of the vegetable.
Abiezer hands him a new type of nut. It was delicious, but quite bitter. The Merchant puts it aside. Abiezer sighs, knowing that he had wound up with a frivolous expedition with nothing to show for it. He walks away, disappointed with the new fruits.

Despite initial failure, someone in the village, where the spices from the far off Northern Landswound up in a stew, and well, This new concoction began selling. Demand increased, and Abiezer with many more men, set off for the Northern Lands once again.
 
Interesting idea - I will definitely keep watching this thread. Just a small nitpick: "Irish" by 600 BC would be not recognizable as such, it would be still very close to Common Celtic. Or, by extension, it would be more similar to Gaulish than to Modern Irish (even though that's a misleading analogy since Gaulish is a P-Celtic language). So, it would something closer to "Samonios" than "Samhain". Of course, writing that would be difficult / highly impractical to present that here. :eek:
 
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