Is there any way for the Ottoman and Austrian empires (mainly the Ottomans) to not break apart and survive intact to the modern day?
The various nationalities wanted autonomy rather than independence. There were still advantages to being part of a Great Power, or in the case of the Turks, hopes of being a Great Power again.
where did you read that ?
For the Ottomans that's because they lost wars to foreign powers who took bits off of it at the edges.They were also empires whose borders and composition shifted with some frequency.
Nice swerve to ignore the fact that the Austrian Empire became the Austro-Hungarian Empire because of a nationalistic revolt. Indeed the big issues it had leading up to WW1 was that the slav's started demanding the same status as the Hungarians who were adamant that they were not going to share the privilege. Its what caused it to believe it had to crush Serbia to quieten these demands. This made it give the impossible ultimatum to Serbia over Franz Ferdinand's death that started WW1 ( even Kaiser Willy thought the Serbian counter offer was more than enough to satisfy honour and stop a war ).There is certainly an over-emphasis on the idea that multi-national empires post 1900 were doomed to failure. Austria-Hungary had no major nationalistic revolts in the entire period before the great war. Sure there were movements such as the black hand and many others, but they were fringe elements, terrorists if you will. Without WW1, or perhaps with a very short campaign in that war, Austria Hungary in its initial incarnation could have survived for decades longer.
I agree - the Ottomans were mostly doomed, it's just that the European powers could not quite agree on how to fillet and serve the Turkey. The French had granted them lots of loans, the British were unwilling to accept Russian control of the straits, the Greeks and Bulgarians too had designs on the straits but no one trusted them enough to allow it and the Germans were building expensive railways to uncomfortable places (for the UK).On the other hand, how much were the British, French, and Russians waiting for the opportunity to break away the Ottoman territories? Even in a scenario without a WWI I can see the Great Powers using internal Ottoman unrest as the pretext to grab land and create breakaway states and by 1900 I'm not sure that the British would favor the Ottomans over the Russians in a conflict.
With the trajectory they were on I think they're in real danger to losing territory to independence movements promoted by foreign powers no matter what reforms they make.
I agree - the Ottomans were mostly doomed, it's just that the European powers could not quite agree on how to fillet and serve the Turkey.
The French had granted them lots of loans,
the British were unwilling to accept Russian control of the straits,
the Greeks and Bulgarians too had designs on the straits but no one trusted them enough to allow it and the Germans were building expensive railways to uncomfortable places (for the UK).
An underindustrialized 20 million nation at that location isnt going to stay around for long when military-industrial giants walk on the earth right next to it.
The Russians threatened to invade if the Germans sent a military mission to Constantinople as they thought the Germans were about to set up a protectorate, Africa style, while undermining their long and costly efforts to destabilize and cut it apart, one pieace at a time.So... as a method of destroying the Ottoman Empire, they... give them loans to support them financially?
Dependence on foreign financing is a classical way to lose national sovereignty.
So... as a method of destroying the Ottoman Empire, they were... guaranteeing their territorial integrity?
From other great powers but only for as long as it's necessary.
So, their true opponents were barred from pushing for dismemberment by... the Great Powers?
Because they could not come to terms over who gets what, or even if certain powers should get anything at all.
Sounds like they were doing quite well at staying intact in the run up to WWI and these "military-industrial giants" seemed quite content to expand their business interests by maintaining the OE as a buyer.
It's fortunate for Turkey that other fronts were more important and that the Western powers + Russia bled themselves dry fighting there.
The Russians threatened to invade if the Germans sent a military mission to Constantinopler as they thought the Germans were about to set up a protectorate, Africa style, while undermining their long and costly efforts to destabilize and cut it apart, one pieace at a time.
Yeah, I could see Austria the reforming into a federation (an idea Franz Ferdinand apparently toyed with). They had after all allowed the confederation with Hungarians earlier to save the Empire. But I don't see that happening for the Ottomans. The fundamental question there is Turkic vs Arab power, and the Turks are not gonna give in. But maybe most of the Empire is salvageable without the Turks as an Arab Federation? Both of these would obviously require that the Great War never happens, which in turn I think requires a fundamental settling of the German Question.