Wellington Vs. Davout

Wellington vs. Davout. Who Wins?

  • Wellington

    Votes: 68 47.2%
  • Davout

    Votes: 61 42.4%
  • Draw

    Votes: 15 10.4%

  • Total voters
    144
I think this all needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Even the greatest general can stumble and make mistakes. Frederick wasn't undefeated and neither was Grant or Patton or Caesar. The Important thing was that they won the war, not who won just one battle.
 
I would have a tendancy to say Davout because of what happened during the battle of Auerstedt.

At Iena, Napoleon's main army crushed what Napoleon thought to be the Prussians' main army while it was not.
At Auerstedt, the same day, Davout defeated the main Prussian army with ONLY his own corpse. Few generals could have done this.

Wellington was probably a good general (and it's not nothing coming from me who is a big Napoleonic lover and thus hate Waterloo) but I don't think he was better than Davout.
 
At the Battle of Fuentes de Onoro, Massena came close to beating the Duke. It is possible that he would have won, had Bessieres (out of jealousy) not denied him reinforcements at the crucial moment. If Massena could reach this result, it seems not unreasonable that-in a battle without the handicap of marshal rivalry-Davout would be victorious.

"Close" butters no parsnips in war. And Bessieres' insubordination consisted mainly of refusing an order to attack the formed squares of the Light Division with the cavalry of the Imperial Guard - an order he was entirely right to refuse, as it would only have got the Guard slaughtered for no conceivable advantage. Oh, he also refused to fetch ammunition from Ciudad Rodrigo when the French batteries were running low, but the battle was effectively over by that point with the French having failed to secure any of their objectives.

Bluntly, Wellington beat every French general who came against him, up to and including Napoleon himself. Some, like Massena, had their careers ruined as a consequence. One of the reasons why Davout's reputation stands so high by contrast is that it never got tainted by an encounter with Wellington. If he had have gone to the Peninsula he would have had no more luck than any of the others.
 
Davout was an excellent administrator-which was why he was entrusted with the role of Minister of War and the defence of Paris by Napoleon during 1815. Incidentally his Great Great (etc) Grandson continued the family tradition and ended up commanding the ALAT and Airmobile Brigade. Met both him plus several others (a Bonaparte, a Decouz and assorted descendents of the family of the 21eme de Ligne) when I went with the 21eme de Ligne (Recree) to Malmaison back in 2000.
 
I would have a tendancy to say Davout because of what happened during the battle of Auerstedt.

At Iena, Napoleon's main army crushed what Napoleon thought to be the Prussians' main army while it was not.
At Auerstedt, the same day, Davout defeated the main Prussian army with ONLY his own corpse. Few generals could have done this.

Wellington was probably a good general (and it's not nothing coming from me who is a big Napoleonic lover and thus hate Waterloo) but I don't think he was better than Davout.

Yes Auerstadt was an impressive battle for Davout but Wellington is not without his own great Victories and unlike Davout he had to handle more than battlefield dispotions and tactics.

Once more; Davout. was. a. subordinate. commander. Wellington. was. an. overall. commander.

Davout cannot be called better than Wellington because he never proved to have anywhere near the skill of Wellington at Army Command. He may very well have been kept from independent command because Napoleon feared Davout's reputation would exceeded his own but the fact remains that he never proved himself in independent command and a great subordinate does not always make a great commander.

Simply put Davout does not have the resume of an independent command to claim that he was even half as good as Wellington and it is it ludicrous to suggest that such an untested and untried independent commander such as he could defeat such a supremely successful independent commander as Wellington was.
 
oh and Davout had no option other than to win at Auerstadt. I've had the opportunity to actually visit the town and to be honest you couldn't find a better place to defend-add to this the bad weather(fog) and the Prussians reliance on linear tactics then you've got it made. Davout made very clever use of every ridge and potential defensive position-very Wellingtonian...
 
"Close" butters no parsnips in war. And Bessieres' insubordination consisted mainly of refusing an order to attack the formed squares of the Light Division with the cavalry of the Imperial Guard - an order he was entirely right to refuse, as it would only have got the Guard slaughtered for no conceivable advantage. Oh, he also refused to fetch ammunition from Ciudad Rodrigo when the French batteries were running low, but the battle was effectively over by that point with the French having failed to secure any of their objectives.

Bluntly, Wellington beat every French general who came against him, up to and including Napoleon himself. Some, like Massena, had their careers ruined as a consequence. One of the reasons why Davout's reputation stands so high by contrast is that it never got tainted by an encounter with Wellington. If he had have gone to the Peninsula he would have had no more luck than any of the others.

Okay, hear me out-I don't deny that ordering the Imperial Guard cavalry to charge the British squares would have been suicidal. But, the cavalry could have been used to defeat its British counterpart, which it greatly outnumbered. We know that during the battle, when the French brought forward cavalry, 7th division formed square. When they deployed cannons, the English cavalry would charge. But, if the British horse had been neutralized, there would have been nothing to stop the French artillery from blasting the squares to pieces.
Besides the fact that Bessiere's judgment call was highly questionable, would the destruction of a division have been enough to compel Wellington to retreat? I don't know. But I don't think we should rule it out.
To adress a wider question, would Davout have been beaten if he had been sent to Spain? Almost certainly. The combination of Wellington's skill, the guerillas, and high command rivalry would have been too much for any of Napoleon's marshals to handle. But outside of Spain (maybe Quatres Bras?) Davout's chances in a confrontation would be good.
 
But, the cavalry could have been used to defeat its British counterpart

Could have been, but weren't so the point's generally moot. Massena brought his all towards Wellington and lost as did all the other Marshalls who fought him. Considering that none of them could work around the flaws of the French Army, I do have to wonder if Davout could.
 
It was Wellington's competence and expertise in getting the best out of a polyglot army which allowed him to hold off the French then combine with the Prussians to drive off the French. A truly great general.

I don't think Wellington's performance at Waterloo was particularly impressive. He held off a numerically equivalent French army on his own for five hours-from 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM. By 4:00 PM, 30,000 Prussians were present on the battlefield, and their numbers steadily increased. The Duke certainly proved himself to be a competent general that day, but not a great one.
 
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