Weimar Republic survives the great depression without going extremist. What next?

In the scenario the Weimar Republic manages to not elect Hindenburg to the Presidency in 1925 and the Weimar Republic manages to survive until at least 1940 without a Nazi or DNVP election victory or takeover and the Great Depression still happens but without the end of the republic. Assuming that the German economy does manage to recover eventually somehow, here are a few questions to think about:
*Would France ever stop seeing Germany as a threat? If so, when?
*Would Germany's reparations ever be cancelled outright?
*Would unification with Austria ever happen without the Nazis in power?
*How long would it be before Germany fully accepts Polish independence and stops having designs anywhere east of the Polish border? How would German-Slavic relations be in this scenario?
*The Soviet Union in this scenario?
*What would relations be like between Germany and the UK/US?
*How important would German be as a second language on the international stage? Would it still become less important vis-a-vis English?
 

Deleted member 1487

*Would France ever stop seeing Germany as a threat? If so, when?
When something else becomes a bigger threat.

*Would Germany's reparations ever be cancelled outright?
They would likely have been put on hold as per OTL and assuming the planned 1932 rearmament plans were put in place its likely they wouldn't have come back and the Germans default on the US loans until they could stabilize their economy.

*Would unification with Austria ever happen without the Nazis in power?
No; they tried that with the Austro-German customs union, but the French pulled their money out of the Austrian banking system in retaliation and collapsed both the Austrian and Germans banks, leading to the rise of Austro-Fascism and ties with Mussolini. Absent Austrian Hitler the Prussians and 'regular' Germans in charge in Berlin would focus only on Poland and not really care about Austria. Austria in the 1930s was more of a burden and underdeveloped compared to Germany, so it wasn't a desireable option unless you were a pan-Germanist, which the Prussians were not.

*How long would it be before Germany fully accepts Polish independence and stops having designs anywhere east of the Polish border? How would German-Slavic relations be in this scenario?
Depends; if they cannot force some border renegotiations then probably 1950s-60s at the earliest IMHO. The old school Prussians need to be filtered out of power. Also the rise of the USSR as a threat might do it, as it would leave Poland as a critical buffer. Hitler was the guy that normalized relations with Poland, so likely frosty relations remain for a while.

*The Soviet Union in this scenario?
Probably a good trading partner with Germany, much like Russia is to Germany today; they trade raw materials for German industrial goods and both sides profit. The Soviets continue to rise, Stalin continues to purge, and the USSR suffers under Stalin even as they grow economically and militarily.

*What would relations be like between Germany and the UK/US?
Probably better between Germany and the UK especially as trade picks up and the Great Depression recedes. They probably divide up markets like IOTL, Germany rearms a bit to 1960s Bundeswehr levels, and it is Britain's anti-Soviet proxy on the continent as it starts to dominate markets and overtakes France decisively. The US-German relations would be frosty because Germany has no choice but to default on their US loans for a while until they stabilize their economy and balance of trade; the US probably after 1936 negotiates better terms and trade deals to help Germany get back into the financial system on good standing so that they pay what they owe. By the 1940s a non-extremist Germany is actually in pretty good graces in the US as they pay back their loans.

It would sort of be like German-US relations today without NATO or Germans being tainted by WW2 and the Holocaust. German-Americans wouldn't be ashamed of their heritage and the German language and culture would still the 2nd only to English in the US and globally. Especially as the German economy and political position recovers it will be much more favorably looked at by the world, especially within Europe as a counter to the USSR (not in France or Poland however).

*How important would German be as a second language on the international stage? Would it still become less important vis-a-vis English?
It would be the counter to English and anglo-phone domination of the globe. It would certainly be 2nd, but much closer than any other language you could imagine, as Germany would be much more powerful economically relative to the US and still be the language of science and social sciences. German cinema would still be the counter to Hollywood, but the US would still pull ahead, just not at fast or as far. Especially if German birthrates don't collapse as they did IOTL and without the huge death toll of OTL Germany would be quite a bit more populous, prosperous, and cultured (the Nazis slaughtered German high culture when they got into power in all manners, not just by exiling German Jews and Liberals).
 
In the scenario the Weimar Republic manages to not elect Hindenburg to the Presidency in 1925 and the Weimar Republic manages to survive until at least 1940 without a Nazi or DNVP election victory or takeover and the Great Depression still happens but without the end of the republic. Assuming that the German economy does manage to recover eventually somehow, here are a few questions to think about:
*Would France ever stop seeing Germany as a threat? If so, when?

Germany was seen as a potential threat. The decision to build the Maginot Line was taken in 1929, and construction began in 1930. So no Nazi regime, but France is still afraid.

*Would Germany's reparations ever be cancelled outright?
Probably not outright, but reparations were reduced greatly before 1933, and would be reduced to some nominal level.

*Would unification with Austria ever happen without the Nazis in power?
Not before say 1950, but later, maybe.

*How long would it be before Germany fully accepts Polish independence and stops having designs anywhere east of the Polish border?
Germany had no problem with Polish independence, I think; it was after all Polish independence from Russia. However, the Polish western border would remain a sore point. In particular, Danzig would be a problem.

How would German-Slavic relations be in this scenario?
Which Slavs? There would be problems with Czechoslovakia over the Sudeten Germans, and with Poland over some borderlands. Other Slavs I don't see much issues with (as Slavs; obviously relations with the USSR are another matter).

*The Soviet Union in this scenario?
The covert military alliance of the 1920s will persist longer, as Germany will remain constrained by Versailles longer. Another possibility is that without the obvious threat of Nazi Germany, Stalin will not push Soviet re-armament so much, nor purge the Red Army as severely.
*What would relations be like between Germany and the UK/US?
Not bad.

*How important would German be as a second language on the international stage? Would it still become less important vis-a-vis English?
Germany lost a lot of its international status due to WW I, but came back somewhat afterwards. Then it was beaten down even more by WW II and by the disgrace of Nazi crimes. German culture and language was pushed down and back. German classical music was exempted, and other bits of high culture, but German popular culture, anything ethnically German was diminished.

In "The Awful German Language", Mark Twain wrote:

I think that a description of any loud, stirring, tumultuous episode must be tamer in German than in English...

There are some German words which are singularly and powerfully effective. For instance, those which describe lowly, peaceful, and affectionate home life; those which deal with love, in any and all forms, from mere kindly feeling and honest good will toward the passing stranger, clear up to courtship; those which deal with outdoor Nature, in its softest and loveliest aspects -- with meadows and forests, and birds and flowers, the fragrance and sunshine of summer, and the moonlight of peaceful winter nights; in a word, those which deal with any and all forms of rest, repose, and peace; those also which deal with the creatures and marvels of fairyland; and lastly and chiefly, in those words which express pathos, is the language surpassingly rich and affective...

I would import some strong words from the English tongue -- to swear with, and also to use in describing all sorts of vigorous things in a vigorous ways.
Yet in the current era, it's said that an actor could sound menacing merely by reading from a German telephone directory. The wars (especially WW II) had a great deal to do with that.
 

Deleted member 1487

Since 1990, Germany has been the most dominant country in Europe and yet France hasn't really seen Germany as a threat since 1990. Who else is a bigger threat now?
In 1945 Germany was crushed and militarily neutered and only rehabilitated under the aegis of NATO. Thereafter France became the senior EEC partner and a unified Germany, which scared the crap out of France initially until the modernization cost issues for the East kicked in, was already a long term ally and economic partner of France. ITTL Germany and France have had none of that detente and long term partnership. That would require either an outside enemy to bring them closer together like a dominant USSR (hard to see that happening for a LONG time without WW2 and the crippling of Germany) or somehow getting Briand's version of the EU going and the French people to get over German invasion fears. That would eventually happen, but it would take at least a generation or more and some political/economic cooperation like in the EEC.
 
To digress from Germany; Facism is not going to have such a bad name. Nationalistic movements will continue to express themselves through Facist parties for at least several more decades, if not through the entire 20th Century. That sort of nationalism, & accompanying conservatism is likely to keep Europe in a uproar for quite a while.

Digressing further; without the economic and social devastation of WWII how much longer can the European empires last?
 

Tyr Anazasi

Banned
In the scenario the Weimar Republic manages to not elect Hindenburg to the Presidency in 1925 and the Weimar Republic manages to survive until at least 1940 without a Nazi or DNVP election victory or takeover and the Great Depression still happens but without the end of the republic. Assuming that the German economy does manage to recover eventually somehow, here are a few questions to think about:

Okay, here are my answers:

*Would France ever stop seeing Germany as a threat? If so, when?

No. France saw Germany as main threat even if it had only an army of 100k soldiers. They did everything to keep the hostility even after German appeasement in the 1920s/early 30s.

*Would Germany's reparations ever be cancelled outright?

Yes, similar to OTL.

*Would unification with Austria ever happen without the Nazis in power?

Yes, it would, as the Austrians felt Germans. Thus this would happen.

*How long would it be before Germany fully accepts Polish independence and stops having designs anywhere east of the Polish border? How would German-Slavic relations be in this scenario?

Polish independence was already accepted in 1916, when Poland was resurrected. Polish borders are another topic. And if we include Danzig we will have the source of a war between Germany and Poland and France. I don't think this is avoidable.

Ironically Hitler had the best relations to Poland from all German governments since 1919 (until about 1939 of course). Thus the tensions remain.

*The Soviet Union in this scenario?

Stalin was too cautious to start something on his own, unless he was sure he would win. And although he had switched the alliances in 1932 by making treaties with Poland and France, he might change his pov later.

*What would relations be like between Germany and the UK/US?

From the German position good. However, if German export starts to grow again that may change soon on the other side.

*How important would German be as a second language on the international stage? Would it still become less important vis-a-vis English?

German would remain the lingua franca of the sciences, especially the natural sciences. Otherwise it may lose some importance though still.
 
No. France saw Germany as main threat even if it had only an army of 100k soldiers. They did everything to keep the hostility even after German appeasement in the 1920s/early 30s.


Yes, it would, as the Austrians felt Germans. Thus this would happen.


Are you are aware of what the French did to the German and Austrian banks when a costume union was proposed? Its above your post


Polish independence was already accepted in 1916, when Poland was resurrected. Polish borders are another topic. And if we include Danzig we will have the source of a war between Germany and Poland and France. I don't think this is avoidable.

Ironically Hitler had the best relations to Poland from all German governments since 1919 (until about 1939 of course). Thus the tensions remain.

So after more then a decade of peace you think war would have still happened? because frankly whilst it wasn't normal relations I don't see it reaching war but rather being a mini Cold war which given time fads into the background

Plus wasn't Danzig owned by the League of Nations

German would remain the lingua franca of the sciences, especially the natural sciences. Otherwise it may lose some importance though still.

Wasn't the reason it declined in Global use because of the World Wars.

On the rest I agree with wiking and I will add the Germany would side with China over Japan as they had good relations with the nationalists.
 
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