We're starting to get a picture of what post-Weber Eastern Europe will look like, and it is ugly.
TTL's version of "Come and See" will be (even more) brutal.
TTL's version of "Come and See" will be (even more) brutal.
Weber's Germany: The Veterinarian Totalitarian
- Thread starter Tom Colton
- Start date
Morghentau Plan here we come...seriously between greater the mess in the east, nazi extermination camp in Africa that will taint the future decolonization process and not even talking about the arabs being actual nazi allies; the post war world will be much much more complicated than OTL, with the Allies a lot less forgiving and probably will dismember Germany and give ITTL Japan the 'AANW' treatment and the bulk of the anticolonial movement will probably forget the degree of sympaty and support of OTL as they will be tainted by what happened in Togo and Camerun (plus Syria)
Interesting. These developments would seem to give Germany and its associates a decent hand heading into the next war with the Soviet Union.
Also, as far as names for these conflicts go, I wonder if "Weberian Wars" might ever catch on?
Also, as far as names for these conflicts go, I wonder if "Weberian Wars" might ever catch on?
I can see the title of the book now: "Weber, the Nazi Napoleon".
In the coming years I imagine OTL historians will speak of "the World Wars" to cover the whole period and all related conflicts e.g. the Great Balkan War, the Libyan War, the Russian Civil War etc. The second was just the Michael Bay-ified rehash of allied propaganda from the first, when you think about it.
Great. They've fucked up Ukraine and fucked over the Poles right on schedule.
The Asia-Pacific War "parallel" TL has been discontinued, sadly (see link in sig).
I'll be responding to everyone else's reactions and enquiries tonight!
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Yes, because that worked so well for Germany the first time they tried it...
Seriously, the best Weber can hope for is that the US doesn't ever notice he's there.
Japan, in the absence of a Nazi "distraction" in Europe, is screwed so much harder than OTL. I doubt they last as long as they did historically, or do as well, not with Britain and France able to devote their full attention to the Pacific; probably done by 43 or 44 at the latest.
Seriously, the best Weber can hope for is that the US doesn't ever notice he's there.
Japan, in the absence of a Nazi "distraction" in Europe, is screwed so much harder than OTL. I doubt they last as long as they did historically, or do as well, not with Britain and France able to devote their full attention to the Pacific; probably done by 43 or 44 at the latest.
Japan will probably be rolled back, though I think it's an open question if they'll be utterly dismantled like OTL, or merely contained to the Home Islands, Korea, and Formosa.
My guess is that Weber launches Barbarossa II: Electric Boogaloo sometime by 1950, but proto-NATO (PRATO?) grinds him out along the European frontier/Middle East.
Basically, the final phase of the "World Wars" (which IIRC is what this period will be called) is a reverse of OTL: The WAllies taking the brunt of the fighting, with the Soviets sweeping in towards the end (across a fractured Eastern Europe that makes the breakup of Yugoslavia look like a company picnic). I think we might also see Weber's Germany collapse from within: the military resistance is still there, albeit severely depleted (IIRC people like Henning von Tresckow, who had a moral objection to Nazism, are still active), and from the hints we've gotten we might see the Greater German Reich collapse under internal pressures long before either army reaches Berlin.
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All right, let's get this show on the road!
Glad to finally be back. I've had more free time this past week than the month before it so I'll be making a neat little announcement at the bottom of this post.
Re: Ukraine
One important thing to recall is that despite a smidgen more competence (which has, nonetheless, made all the difference), the Nazis are still Nazis, and no amount of pragmatic concern will stop them from thinking they can bully and steal their way to the resources and strategic spaces they desire. As the writer puts it, any other country not so embedded in totalitarianism would probably think of asking first.
Re: After the end
The situation in Eastern Europe is going to be nasty in the aftermath, but given all the strange twists and turns I've contrived history into and the circumstances in which I intend to end this, various peoples and ethnic groups will find themselves together with strange bedfellows indeed.
We'll just have to see how far the Syrians being their "allies" actually gets them in the following update. With regards to Africa (in a later update), the sad truth is that if the Allies acted so late on the OTL Holocaust it may well be more easily ignored. However, the existence of this institution of white slavery (because let's face it, that's what it is) will have massive impacts once word gets out.
The situation in Eastern Europe may or may not lead to justice and/or vengeance, depending on whether there's anyone around to enforce it.
Interesting predictions; we'll just have to see how the Asia-Pacific War pans out first.
Re: Historiography
Ehh, probably not. I can see why people would draw parallels, but it doesn't jibe with me for some reason.
Quite so. The post-Weber Nazis (assuming the Reich lasts that long) will have to inherit a burnished kingdom built on feet of clay, and if the Reich doesn't start collapsing before he pops his clogs it almost certainly will after that.
Re: America
Weber will be focusing on trade, so while he'll give ideological support he's going to make sure he toes the line pretty neatly, especially since he's going to have front-row seats to the ass-whupping of the century, delivered by the very angry, formerly-sleeping giant.
The Balkans update wound up running longer than I thought it would, so it's going to be its own post, and the Iraq War update is pretty much done too. I'm starting my work on the African situation soon, and assuming all goes well that means I'm pretty set until mid-September!
The (VERY TENTATIVE) schedule will look like this:
A great update on German occupied Ukraine Tom Colton.
Glad to finally be back. I've had more free time this past week than the month before it so I'll be making a neat little announcement at the bottom of this post.
This should be the motto of this TL, really.
Strange what sorts of wishes this TL can generate, eh?
USE THE SOURCE, LUKEThere was a Third Balkan War?
Protip: It also makes it easier for the author to remember what happens in their own TL.
===
Re: Ukraine
A parallel I hadn't considered, but all too true, really.
One important thing to recall is that despite a smidgen more competence (which has, nonetheless, made all the difference), the Nazis are still Nazis, and no amount of pragmatic concern will stop them from thinking they can bully and steal their way to the resources and strategic spaces they desire. As the writer puts it, any other country not so embedded in totalitarianism would probably think of asking first.
===
Re: After the end
The situation in Eastern Europe is going to be nasty in the aftermath, but given all the strange twists and turns I've contrived history into and the circumstances in which I intend to end this, various peoples and ethnic groups will find themselves together with strange bedfellows indeed.
We'll just have to see how far the Syrians being their "allies" actually gets them in the following update. With regards to Africa (in a later update), the sad truth is that if the Allies acted so late on the OTL Holocaust it may well be more easily ignored. However, the existence of this institution of white slavery (because let's face it, that's what it is) will have massive impacts once word gets out.
The situation in Eastern Europe may or may not lead to justice and/or vengeance, depending on whether there's anyone around to enforce it.
Interesting predictions; we'll just have to see how the Asia-Pacific War pans out first.
===
Re: Historiography
Ehh, probably not. I can see why people would draw parallels, but it doesn't jibe with me for some reason.
Quite so. The post-Weber Nazis (assuming the Reich lasts that long) will have to inherit a burnished kingdom built on feet of clay, and if the Reich doesn't start collapsing before he pops his clogs it almost certainly will after that.
The punctuated nature of the conflicts has led me to evaluate the nature of these wars and just how they interlock and interact with each other; throwing Iraq into the mix will show how and when allies and enemies aren't quite as clear-cut as they ought to be.
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Re: America
Weber will be focusing on trade, so while he'll give ideological support he's going to make sure he toes the line pretty neatly, especially since he's going to have front-row seats to the ass-whupping of the century, delivered by the very angry, formerly-sleeping giant.
===
Just a couple of queries I'd like to make, before I make the announcement:
- Does anyone read the "status updates" (let's call a spade a spade) I use to say when something's been updated or put up a prediction as to when I do (which can admittedly be very spotty)?
- Has anyone besides RMcD94 seen the spanking new index and the listing of future installments? If not, I guess I've brought it to your attention now.
The Balkans update wound up running longer than I thought it would, so it's going to be its own post, and the Iraq War update is pretty much done too. I'm starting my work on the African situation soon, and assuming all goes well that means I'm pretty set until mid-September!
The (VERY TENTATIVE) schedule will look like this:
- 13 August: The Balkans (Slovenia, Serbia and Banat-Vojvodina)
- 27 August: The Iraq War
- 10 September: The Second Exodus (The Final Solution, Continued)
- Late September, earliest, no guarantees: Weapons Development
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cpip
Gone Fishin'
I do! I just am not going to hold you to any sort of updating schedule. Update as you're able, sir.
And lovely indeed it is. Thank you for that!
stirlingdraka
Donor
Thank you for posting the upcoming chapter titles in the table of contents Tom Colton. Thanks for posting your hopeful updating schedule as well I am very interested in the Second Exodus update.
Thanks for posting your hopeful updating schedule as well I am very interested in the Second Exodus update.Little Red Bean
Banned
Not to derail from a solid update, but I find it hard to believe that the Ukrainian fascists would be "reluctant" to hand over Jews ITTL. These are the guys who killed my family and were generally active participants in the Holocaust IOTL.
Thank you for posting the upcoming chapter titles in the table of contents Tom Colton.
Thanks, guys!
I hope so too.
Duly noted, and I've edited the update to reflect a much likelier attitude. Apologies if I have caused offence through my lack of research in this matter.