Weber's Germany: The Veterinarian Totalitarian

[Tom Colton]

Thanks, everyone!

@Ryan : The index has been updated, and I've fixed the formatting issues on all the old updates too!

*keeps looking at the clock*
*sees update*
*cheers*

Ayyyyyy the veterinarian is back

A good update, Colton. Happy to hear from you just finished uni myself for the year.

Keep it up, Tom!

A wonderful update for the new board Tom Colton.

Thanks, guys!

Re: Byelorussia and the postwar Germans

Seems like Byelorussia is independent in TTL's present time. Either the Soviet Union fell more or less the same as IOTL or WW2: Part II didn't go so well for the Russians.

I had a quick attempt at working out the demographics of the Belarusian Free State (immediately prior to the outbreak of WWII). This is what I came up with:

A total of 3,300,000 people, consisting of:

1,480,000 Poles
1,400,000 Belarusians
250,000 Jews
100,000 Lithuanians
70,000 Russians

----------

Not sure how accurate this is; it's based on 1931 Polish census data, with some rough adjustments by me to take into account possible pro-Polish bias in the census wording and population growth since 1931.

The population will have dropped during WWII, but I'm not sure how much.

Regardless, it seems we can reach the conclusion that the Belarusian Free State currently has approximately equal populations of Poles and Belarusians, with other sizeable minorities.

What next? There are quite a lot of Poles fleeing "Gothica" for the Nazi puppet border states, including Belarus. It seems likely that Poles will soon be the majority of the population in the Belarusian Free State, but these Poles will be heavily discriminated against by the Belarusian minority who wields political power... this is not a recipe for a stable country. I wonder what happens next.

Edit: Notice that Vilnius/Vilna/Wilno is the largest city in the Belarusian Free State, and probably its capital. Despite the fact that the city itself contains few Belarusians.

While in OTL, the dispute over who should own Vilnius was/is between Poland and Lithuania, in TTL it is quite probable that Belarus will also have a claim to the city.

Plus, of course, it used to be 25% Jewish, and when the Nazis are defeated, the surviving Jews in the slave colony of Kamerun will quite possibly want to return to Vilnius. Another claimant to rightful ownership of the city.

Good update!

So, what will happen to these Germans communities after the dust is settled?

Given Vilnius is refered by its Lithuanian name, it seems Poland will not get it back after - and it seems these kind of comments will still happen (at one point, this article was one of the most commented on The Economist!), especially after the local fascists will have beaten up the Poles as OTL and treated them as ego-boosters TTL; moreover, it seems "Byelorussia" will be independent.

Given how is treated Belarus, I fear to see what Ukraine will get.

My guess is a one way ticket back to Germany, no ifs ands or buts about it.

Interesting points re: Byelorussia; it does seem like Belarusians will actually be a priviliged minority...at least for the time being. Vilnius is in Lithuania, though, I should correct. It's debatable if the Jews would want to return to the same conditions which enabled their systematic oppression in the first place, especially if they have the alternative of a homeland elsewhere. And that's a big if.

As for Byelorussia's ultimate fate, we'll have to wait and see.

And yeah, it's not going to be fun to be a German once the house of cards collapses. * 1

Re: Ukraine

Yay, update! This one isn't as bleak as, say, Poland, but Ukraine... that's gonna be pretty horrific.

Ah, so it looks like the Axis has many more soldiers for the next round with Stalin.
Great update, but I'm eager to see how the Ukraine is working out. There is no doubt the Reich will mine them and farm them for all the resources they contain in preparation for the next go with the Entente (and ensure tons of German immigration to the Crimea)

Ukraine's a funny case, given that since Weber backed Bandera, they're stuck with them for the time being...but the OUN-B is sitting on the biggest pile of resources for the next war, and hell'll freeze over before anyone stops the Reich from exploiting the former breadbasket of the USSR. Whatever the changes are in the near future, they won't be pretty. * 2

See below for my screw-up concerning Crimea.

Re: Round 2

Finally, Weber's back! Great update, especially the comments about the "next war". I wonder how far from it we are.

Man, between losing men in Barbarossa 2 and the inevitable Soviet vengeance, Eastern Europe's demography is gonna be fucked to hell

Yeah...it's not going to be pleasant. * 3

Re: The rest!

Dat Baltenkreuz. :3

Both a historical connection and that much more evil-looking!

Great update. I thought the USSR kept control of the Crimea though?

they did, Tom made a mistake!

You're quite correct. That map's from an old draft and I couldn't isolate Crimea in the SVG editing program.

Well, whatever happens to Germany, we can be reassured that people will at least remember them.....as causing the chaos that still exists in the East.

This is indeed a sad but true consequence of the events leading up to this stage.

 

[Ryan]

@Ryan : The index has been updated, and I've fixed the formatting issues on all the old updates too!

Awesome!

EDIT: just realized, the index is in the test message forum which means it can get vandalized. it might be a good idea to put the index in the OP so it's easy to find and can't be edited by strangers.

 

[Hades]

Good to have the story back. I wonder who weber has lined up to succeed him.

 

[fluttersky]

Interesting points re: Byelorussia; it does seem like Belarusians will actually be a priviliged minority...at least for the time being. Vilnius is in Lithuania, though, I should correct. It's debatable if the Jews would want to return to the same conditions which enabled their systematic oppression in the first place, especially if they have the alternative of a homeland elsewhere. And that's a big if.

Ah, that makes sense. According to your map, Vilnius is in Belarus. If it, and the surrounding regions, are actually in Lithuania, then that would, I think, leave Belarus with a Belarusian majority, albeit with a large Polish minority.

 

[Tom Colton]

Awesome!

EDIT: just realized, the index is in the test message forum which means it can get vandalized. it might be a good idea to put the index in the OP so it's easy to find and can't be edited by strangers.

Not a problem!

Really? I'll have to post the index in here then.

EDIT @Ryan : Done! The main link now leads to the first post, into which I inserted the index.

Good to have the story back. I wonder who weber has lined up to succeed him.

As of right now, it's Wilhelm Frick, fellow Alte Kampfer and generally inoffensive functionary, although given that he's super old that might change in the near future.

Ah, that makes sense. According to your map, Vilnius is in Belarus. If it, and the surrounding regions, are actually in Lithuania, then that would, I think, leave Belarus with a Belarusian majority, albeit with a large Polish minority.

Ah, right. Well, chalk that down as another inaccuracy then. It's what I get for working with SVG maps where I'm literally using union and difference functions to make shapes. The Lithuanaia shape I used must have been the pre-WW2 one, where Vilnius lies in Poland (which is now the Belarusian Free State.)

 

[fluttersky]

Ah, right. Well, chalk that down as another inaccuracy then. It's what I get for working with SVG maps where I'm literally using union and difference functions to make shapes. The Lithuania shape I used must have been the pre-WW2 one, where Vilnius lies in Poland (which is now the Belarusian Free State.)

Ah, okay.

Here, I've made a map of what the Poland area looks like, using the borders of your map. The Belarus-Lithuania border needs altering, considering that you've stated that Vilnius is in Lithuania; how much should it be moved? Are there any other alterations I should make to the map?

 

[Johannes Parisiensis]

And yeah, it's not going to be fun to be a German once the house of cards collapses. * 1

On the other hand, they could leave without any harm given Polish, Byelorussian, Ukrainian and Lithuanian militias will be too much busy with killing each other to concern with the local German settlers.

Ah, okay.

Here, I've made a map of what the Poland area looks like, using the borders of your map. The Belarus-Lithuania border needs altering, considering that you've stated that Vilnius is in Lithuania; how much should it be moved? Are there any other alterations I should make to the map?

I would have thought some of these towns wouled have German names.

 

[fluttersky]

On the other hand, they could leave without any harm given Polish, Byelorussian, Ukrainian and Lithuanian militias will be too much busy with killing each other to concern with the local German settlers.



I would have thought some of these towns wouled have German names.

Definitely. But the basemap I used had Polish names, and I didn't feel like changing them.

 

[fluttersky]

I would have thought some of these towns would have German names.

And here you have it. Map of the region formerly known as Poland, now with 100% less Polish names.

Notes:
In Germany, Polish names have been replaced with existing German equivalents wherever possible. Where I couldn't find any, I just made up a reasonable German name. (e.g. renamed Wolkowysk to Wölfeheulen, a plausible calque)
Brest is the largest city in the Belarusian Free State, and close to the German border, so I assumed it's the capital of Belarus. Thus I gave it a bigger dot.
Renamed Zamość to Hitlerstadt. In OTL, it was called Himmlerstadt, but in TTL Himmler is pretty much a nobody, so I needed another Nazi to name it after.
I didn't know which country to put Bratislava in, so I just left it in Slovakia.
And finally moved the Lithuania-Belarusian border to somewhere closer to OTL Lithuania's postwar eastern border.

 

[Penny for The Guy]

These maps -- how do you do that?

 

[fluttersky]

These maps -- how do you do that?

Me? I got this basemap off Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RzeczpospolitaII.png

From there, it's just a matter of editing the borders and city names in MS Paint.

Anyway, I just realised Wikipedia has a bigger basemap, so I decided to incorporate that. Here's TTL's map of Eastern Europe, expanded a bit.

Ukraine - Soviet Union border on this map is quite rough, but still better than nothing. Rest of the map should be fairly accurate.

 

[Tom Colton]

@fluttersky That's amazing work! Thank you! I think those edits are quite accurate indeed; I'll figure out Germanised names for the occupied cities in due course, I suppose.

(Tallinn reverted to Reval, by the way.)

 

[The Congressman]

How close are the Germans with the national socialist Syrians? Does the Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe have bases in Syria that could threaten the Entente control of the Middle East?
Also, what's the state of Balbo's Italy. I would assume a furious modernization of the military

 

[CrimsonKing]

How close are the Germans with the national socialist Syrians? Does the Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe have bases in Syria that could threaten the Entente control of the Middle East?
Also, what's the state of Balbo's Italy. I would assume a furious modernization of the military

Those are interesting issues. The question about Italy's military situation also gets to a broader and important matter, which is the situation in the west. France was cut down to military irrelevance by the earlier peace deal, but as time goes on one would expect them to try to get around the restrictions as much as possible like Weimar Germany did. Almost certainly not enough to seriously challenge Weber's expanded Germany, but perhaps enough to make him nervous about going east again with it in his rear. I seem to recall him saying somewhere that he only expected the treaty to hold for around a decade or so.

 

[Tom Colton]

How close are the Germans with the national socialist Syrians? Does the Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe have bases in Syria that could threaten the Entente control of the Middle East?
Also, what's the state of Balbo's Italy. I would assume a furious modernization of the military

Those are interesting issues. The question about Italy's military situation also gets to a broader and important matter, which is the situation in the west. France was cut down to military irrelevance by the earlier peace deal, but as time goes on one would expect them to try to get around the restrictions as much as possible like Weimar Germany did. Almost certainly not enough to seriously challenge Weber's expanded Germany, but perhaps enough to make him nervous about going east again with it in his rear. I seem to recall him saying somewhere that he only expected the treaty to hold for around a decade or so.

The situation in the Middle East will be the subject of the following update, after the Ukraine one. Let's just say things are going to get interesting.

Italy probably warrants an update all to itself, but we'll see.

 

[DaveB]

The situation in the Middle East will be the subject of the following update, after the Ukraine one. Let's just say things are going to get interesting.

While the Med is at peace, drop Rommel in there with a Deutsches Levantekorps. The logistics of the DLK will be crap, so no change there, but he can move straight into Iraq to support the Golden Square, and then into Iran when the pro-axis coup takes place there. Threatening Baku. Only not very convincingly. Or with any supplies reaching him.

(Perhaps not an entirely serious suggestion.)

 

[Wayside]

National Socialist Syrians... that is a weird phrase even by AH.com standards, but I'm fascinated to see how it plays out.

 

[Hades]

National Socialist Syrians... that is a weird phrase even by AH.com standards, but I'm fascinated to see how it plays out.

Bear in mind that there is a Nazi Party (called Social Nationalists) in Syria, while the Baathists are effectively fascists, in OTL

 

[Cregan]

National Socialist Syrians... that is a weird phrase even by AH.com standards, but I'm fascinated to see how it plays out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Social_Nationalist_Party

 

[fluttersky]

Bohemia-Moravia is known as "Czechia" in-universe and is governed like Austria, with a much less intense Aryanisation and German-language programme compared to Gothica. The heavy industries are proving very valuable to the Reich, much like OTL.

Why "Czechia"? That's really surprising, naming the region after a minority ethnic group that Germany probably wants to integrate. Wouldn't using a name like "Czechia" encourage Czech nationalism?
Although I guess it could be a policy of appeasement: don't annoy the Czechs too much, to prevent revolts. Still seems odd, and a decidedly un-Nazi thing to do.

Anyway, what does the "much less intense Aryanization" program entail? I guess it means German-language education in schools etc, and German being the language of government, but people aren't deported for speaking Czech.

Here's a map of OTL's Reichsgaue of Germany in 1944: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NS_administrative_Gliederung_1944.png. TTL's German external borders are fairly similar to the ones on this map. Geographically, it's easy to see why Germany will want to integrate Czechia; if it ever managed to get independent, that would really be a thorn in Germany's side, cutting much of Germany in half.

I imagine a concept of Germany's "core territory" might exist. A kite-shaped quadrilateral with corners at around Heligoland, Strasburg, Laibach, and East Prussia. That quadrilateral is the region that's got a solid majority of Germans and is generally German-speaking. To be contrasted with Germany's colonial territories, puppet states, and their settler-territory-cum-dumping-ground-for-Poles of Gothica.


On a completely different subject, what's happening in South Tyrol right now? Heavy Italianization leading to an exodus of German-speakers to Germany?