Weber's Germany: The Veterinarian Totalitarian

[Tom Colton]

Worried about what the Endlosung is...

Wow, Weber is a lot more methodical and sneaky than Hitler it seems. Wonder how this Final Solution will be enacted.

Given that Kristallnacht, the Stasi, the SS and the Volkssturm aren't what they are IOTL, that should give you an idea of what the Final Solution will (or won't) be...

Having watched Conspiracy (featuring Kenneth Brannagh and Stanley Tucci) yesterday among other research, I understand the OTL Final Solution came about due to the end of the war being distant given troubles in invading Russia - and thus the Final Solution would need to some round a lot sooner, and the idea that they would end up assimilating millions more Jews when they incorporated Russia into the Greater German Reich. Change these conditions and the decisions involved change too.

It should rather be Hilfsdienst rather than Hilfsbedienung.

While both translate as 'service' in English, 'Bedienung' is the kind of service you get in restaurants and department stores (the personal kind). 'Dienst' is service in a governmental context.

Thank you very much. I don't speak German, so if I make more egregious grammatical errors, feel free to correct me.

As for 'Scheuleder', it is an archaic term. The more moden one is 'Scheuklappen'. Although I guess it works in this context, as it is something those inbred Bavarians would likely use

I wanted a slightly more figurative word for it, so I decided to go with one of the alternatives Wikipedia presented.

For those following, latest update is on the previous page.

 

[iddt3]

This is fascinating and original (and a bit terrifying) , I look forward to seeing where you go with this.
If you're looking for a better German performance on the eastern front, the biggest things factor is probably logistics ; if you can get the Germans to take account of the differing rail gages and prepare ahead of time that will do wonders for German supply movement. IIRC the Germans planned to simply capture Russian locomotives and cars, and ignored the transhipment issues; which were ironically about the only thing they couldn't capture in sufficient quantity. More oil and better parts standardization (especially for trucking, historically the Germans just grabbed everything with wheels on it) would both also be huge in allowing them to project power farther, and to actually use their occupied territories as opposed to starving them to death.

 

[Tom Colton]

This is fascinating and original (and a bit terrifying) , I look forward to seeing where you go with this.
If you're looking for a better German performance on the eastern front, the biggest things factor is probably logistics ; if you can get the Germans to take account of the differing rail gages and prepare ahead of time that will do wonders for German supply movement. IIRC the Germans planned to simply capture Russian locomotives and cars, and ignored the transhipment issues; which were ironically about the only thing they couldn't capture in sufficient quantity. More oil and better parts standardization (especially for trucking, historically the Germans just grabbed everything with wheels on it) would both also be huge in allowing them to project power farther, and to actually use their occupied territories as opposed to starving them to death.

Thank you! I honestly wonder what sort of world would result from Weber's plans and their execution. Some parts of the world are much better off thanks to his decisions, but Nazi Germany will definitely leave an indelible mark on Eastern Europe.

I understand there's the issue of the different rail gauges, but IOTL was Hitler and the command staff aware of the gravity of the problem and would there have been enough time to develop variable-gauge systems? Would captured rolling stock and construction facilities from Poland have made a difference?

 

[Some Bloke]

So when it comes to oppressive laws, Weber took more time and care to polish the turd than Hitler.

 

[Johannes Parisiensis]

What about "the man with a heart of iron", i.e. Reinhardt Heydrich?

He would fit well in Weber's Reich.

Given that Kristallnacht, the Stasi, the SS and the Volkssturm aren't what they are IOTL, that should give you an idea of what the Final Solution will (or won't) be...

Is the Endloesung a transportation of the Jews in an huge ghetto in Poland?

 

[Tanner151]

I could see a mass sterilization program. A sterilizing drug put into their food during 1942/1943. So why very few Jews would die (shot/gassed etc) during the war, there would be very few Jew descendants in Europe due to the sterilization. Weber's veterinarian background could influence this. This way Germany will save a lot of bullets, building death camps etc and focus principally on the war with the mass sterilization solving a multitude of racial issues for Germany down the road (that's considering the German belief that they would win in the end).

Heydrich could lead the SS in the Eastern Territories during the war, the non-Waffen-SS (if those are going to be around).

 

[traveller76]

Work

Work camps for those who are fit to be used for military industries. They will be worked until they drop. Those with obvious disabilities may disappear into hospitals and never be seen again.

 

[Tanner151]

Work camps for those who are fit to be used for military industries. They will be worked until they drop. Those with obvious disabilities may disappear into hospitals and never be seen again.

Yeah. The slave labor could benefit the Reich's industrial output. The cripples could be euthanized and the rest worked to death (with the possible mass sterilization). Heydrich (if he is in Weber's Germany) and Speer (if he becomes Minister of War Production) would increase the German industrial output by a moderate percentage I think.

 

[Tom Colton]

What about "the man with a heart of iron", i.e. Reinhardt Heydrich?

He would fit well in Weber's Reich.

Is the Endloesung a transportation of the Jews in an huge ghetto in Poland?

Himmler's not around so Heydrich might have been butterflied. However, unfortunate as it is a thing to say, Heydrich would be very useful in these circumstances.

As for the Final Solution, you'll have to wait and see.

I could see a mass sterilization program. A sterilizing drug put into their food during 1942/1943. So why very few Jews would die (shot/gassed etc) during the war, there would be very few Jew descendants in Europe due to the sterilization. Weber's veterinarian background could influence this. This way Germany will save a lot of bullets, building death camps etc and focus principally on the war with the mass sterilization solving a multitude of racial issues for Germany down the road (that's considering the German belief that they would win in the end).

Heydrich could lead the SS in the Eastern Territories during the war, the non-Waffen-SS (if those are going to be around).

Work camps for those who are fit to be used for military industries. They will be worked until they drop. Those with obvious disabilities may disappear into hospitals and never be seen again.

Yeah. The slave labor could benefit the Reich's industrial output. The cripples could be euthanized and the rest worked to death (with the possible mass sterilization). Heydrich (if he is in Weber's Germany) and Speer (if he becomes Minister of War Production) would increase the German industrial output by a moderate percentage I think.

Work camps, slave labour and sterilisation are ideas - although at the risk of giving spoilers, that wasn't the original idea for this iteration of Final Solution, although Weber's Germany would probably appropriate the fitter Jews for the labour, and possibly incorporate X-rays and sterilisation drugs. Not necessarily the Slavs, though, if the Greater German Reich actually wants a chance to survive.

If anyone does want to know my concepts for the Endlösung, feel free to PM me, and we can discuss plausibility.

 

[Tanner151]

Weber's Germany is taking a more practical approach to the Slavs which makes a lot more sense than what the OTL Nazis did to the Slavs. Slavs, in many ways, look just about as Aryan as Germanic/Nordic people.

Are they considered a racial enemy like OTL or more like a racial cousin misled by corrupting ideals (Communism)?

 

[Tom Colton]

Weber's Germany is taking a more practical approach to the Slavs which makes a lot more sense than what the OTL Nazis did to the Slavs. Slavs, in many ways, look just about as Aryan as Germanic/Nordic people.

Are they considered a racial enemy like OTL or more like a racial cousin misled by corrupting ideals (Communism)?

I would direct you to this:

Weber himself was less obsessed with the origins of the Nordic race than with its future – to him, unless he acted to save the Germanic population from the economic and political influence of the Jews, they would drive Germany to destruction just like they had in the last war. Furthermore, he felt the Greater German Reich would only prosper through expansion, particularly eastwards into the Soviet sphere of influence. The masters of the new lands were to be Germans, with the Slavs forming a convenient agricultural and industrial base.

So, discriminatory and racist, and the state Poland has no place in the world as envisioned by the Nazis, but no Vernichtung durch Arbeit for the Slavs. The Poles would be dispersed elsewhere in Eastern Europe and steps taken to decrease/eliminate Polish culture.

 

[Tanner151]

Ah ok. Thanks for clearing up.

 

[St. Just]

Bring in Heydrich- this Germany certainly plays to his skills... and Weber needs a successor eventually. ..

 

[Seraphiel]

Love this. I cant wait for the next update.

Though I have to agree Heydrich would make a very interesting character in the Veterinarians Germany.

 

[Tanner151]

Bring in Heydrich- this Germany certainly plays to his skills... and Weber needs a successor eventually. ..

Yeah, Heydrich would be a more logical choice than Goering and Goebbels I think.

 

[PaulJones202718]

While I am curious as to how a veterinarian would go about conducting an Endlosung (and have the queasy feeling that it involves doing what Drew Carey says to do to pets), what I really want to see is the end-game. I should think that Weber isn't going to do the scorched earth thing......

 

[Tom Colton]

Bring in Heydrich- this Germany certainly plays to his skills... and Weber needs a successor eventually. ..

Love this. I cant wait for the next update.

Though I have to agree Heydrich would make a very interesting character in the Veterinarians Germany.

Yeah, Heydrich would be a more logical choice than Goering and Goebbels I think.

Based on popular demand, The Man with the Iron Heart will be incorporated into the Stasi. A major factor is removing Himmler was an attempt to move away from the death camps and gas chambers, but based on Brannagh's interpretation of Heydrich, he probably would have been just as happy to take another course - so long as it was done efficiently.

As for Weber's successor (assuming the Greater German Reich survives until 1954 which is when Weber died OTL), that's going to be an interesting question. Heydrich might be too busy...

While I am curious as to how a veterinarian would go about conducting an Endlosung (and have the queasy feeling that it involves doing what Drew Carey says to do to pets), what I really want to see is the end-game. I should think that Weber isn't going to do the scorched earth thing......

The full nature of the Final Solution will be revealed in good time (just to say again, if anyone wants to know my ideas ahead of time, PM me: I need to check plausibility on some issues), but there's still the matter of the internal changes, rearmament, expansion, war with Poland, war with France, and of course, Generalplan Ost (all of which will occur in one form or other ITTL). Not to mention the implications of Weber's War in the Far East...

As for how it all ends, it may end with a "better" world than OTL...or it may not. Would a saner (for certain values of "sane") Nazi Germany have been better for the world? That is the question that remains.

Next update concerning women's rights (and maybe sterilisation programmes) will be up by the weekend.

 

[kung Zog]

Next update concerning women's rights (and maybe sterilisation programmes) will be up by the weekend.

Looking forward to it. It's nice that you have a broad approach to the historic development.

 

[Wendell]

One has to wonder if in iths timeline, it would be a thing to somehow years later associate veterinary medicine with fascism.

 

[Some Bloke]

How will Rohm presence affect Bolivian politics? Will it still be landlocked ITTL?