Weber's Germany: The Veterinarian Totalitarian
- Thread starter Tom Colton
- Start date
Keep on guessing; the fate of the SA will be markedly different from what happens in OTL, and that's all I'll say.
The lack of Himmler (and consequently no Heydrich) will go a long way in affecting racial policies, although with Goebbels still around, the Jews are not in for good times.I was going to ask how you knew that and then I recalled that Weber had a father-in-law. D'oh!
I'll just handwave that she left him while he was at Landsberg, feeling that he'd never get far due to his association with the failed putsch. (Were the Nazis more successful, she might've stayed by his side, given her father was still writing Germany's Renewal).Thank you. The process wasn't difficult: I basically imagined what a nest of selfish bastards would act like, and how one would go around concentrating attention and authority on oneself in such an environment. The machinations regarding Rohm and Himmler, as hinted above, are necessary steps in getting Weber where he will go.
Most recent update is on the previous page, for those following.
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The Mahnovite
Banned
Pity about Röhm getting discarded. It's never the socialists of NSDAP that get to power.
Oh, well, I guess a few more updates will come until we see who'll be Weber's pick for the navy chief. That'll be interesting, since Hitler was not into naval matters.
Oh, well, I guess a few more updates will come until we see who'll be Weber's pick for the navy chief. That'll be interesting, since Hitler was not into naval matters.
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Keep on guessing; the fate of the SA will be markedly different from what happens in OTL, and that's all I'll say.
So the Nazis will be anti-Semitic but I'm assuming they will segregated, probably taxed heavily, and many/most rights taken away but no death camps. Concentration camps for politicals, Communists, gypsies(?) I bet will still be around but will be like an actual prison camps for undesirables, not a holding pen for the death camps.
Despite the TTL's Nazis being a bit less genocidal I have to point out that there will be many thousands of Jews shot by the SA/German military during the war because anti-Semitism is still a feature of National Socialism and even though Weber is more anti-Communist than anti-Semitic and obviously less genocidal there will always be Jew-shooting Nazi bastards.
Very good updates. I like how Hitler didn't just die, he died in the care of Weber. This does a lot to explain how a veterinarian becomes Führer.
I can see the "Endlösung" being applied not to Jews so much as the killing of anyone with leftist sentiments, which may of course include lots of Jews. If Weber plays his cards right he could get a lot of anti-Stalinists (Ukrainians, for instance) on his side in a sort of holy war against the USSR. Ukraine could be set up in a similar way to how Manchuria was by the Japanese, and then once some headway is made into Russia they could set up a "Reorganized Russian Government" at St. Petersburg or something. All Nazi puppets designed to serve German geopolitical and economic interests, of course, but a bit more logical than Generalplan Ost.
I can see the "Endlösung" being applied not to Jews so much as the killing of anyone with leftist sentiments, which may of course include lots of Jews. If Weber plays his cards right he could get a lot of anti-Stalinists (Ukrainians, for instance) on his side in a sort of holy war against the USSR. Ukraine could be set up in a similar way to how Manchuria was by the Japanese, and then once some headway is made into Russia they could set up a "Reorganized Russian Government" at St. Petersburg or something. All Nazi puppets designed to serve German geopolitical and economic interests, of course, but a bit more logical than Generalplan Ost.
While a different propaganda approach will probably gain additional Ukrainian support, the practical matter is that from a logistical standpoint Generalplan Ost is almost necessity. Germany was able to free up a lot of badly needed room on the trucks by resorting to the hunger plan, as it meant less food to ship east. No hunger plan means the German advance grinds to a halt further west earlier. German advance grinding to a halt further west leaves the Soviets with more troops, more equipment, more resources, and more time to exploit all of that.
I also have to note the general similarity TTL between the death of Lenin and the death of Hitler (which have happened here a year between each other, unless Lenin hasn't died yet...) in regards to one man seizing upon the legacy of the dead...
Is Uncle Joe gonna seize power TTL? I'd love to see Trotsky on (show)-trial, if only because the lack of a fleeing Trotskyism heavily damages the existence of a "Trotskyism"...
Is Uncle Joe gonna seize power TTL? I'd love to see Trotsky on (show)-trial, if only because the lack of a fleeing Trotskyism heavily damages the existence of a "Trotskyism"...
That was my first thought too, upon seeing the title.A totalitarian bureaucratic state run by Max Weber?
All this discussion indicates that I need to do more research into the Eastern Front and management of the Reichskommissariats. Without giving too many spoilers, Germany will have considerably more resources to throw at Russia when the war comes (in a hopefully plausible setup). One of Weber's overall philosophies which diverges from Hitler's in certain ways will be applied again and again to the occupied territories, with varying degrees of success.
As for the Jews, there will (as of writing) still be a measure called the Final Solution, but as to what nature it takes...read on, friends.
Embarrassingly, I don't know a lot about the politics of early Soviet Russia!
I wrote it that way as it made the most sense to me - for someone to seize Hitler's legacy and manipulate it in such a way that he'd be seen as the (sole) logical successor. This consolidation would be critical in this version of the Nazi Party, which fared even worse than OTL's because of Hitler's apparent fatal wound in the putsch (which is why Hess didn't return until Hitler died).Unfortunately, the butterflies adamantly refuse to cross the German borders so far, although the rest of the world will probably have different reactions to the mild-mannered, bespectacled Weber compared to the hot-headed demagogue Hitler.
Speaking of Stalin, have a slight spoiler for the Eastern Front. This may change in the future based on the narrative leading to war. The next part will go up later today!
PS: Cut it with the Max Weber gags! He wasn't even a veterinarian!!
altamiro
Banned
It is a matter of perception by the rest of the word. While to the victims of the starvation it won't matter that much, there is a massive difference betwee the view the historians will have on seizing food to feed occupation troops resulting in a famine, and on a plan using hunger as a weapon to murder "undesired" population. It is still a horror to be caught up in, surely. However, an occupation force seizing food from local farmers to feed itself and inadvertently causing mass starvation and/or impoverishment has been pretty much par for the course in most large scale military campaigns since tehre are large military campaigns...
All this discussion indicates that I need to do more research into the Eastern Front and management of the Reichskommissariats. Without giving too many spoilers, Germany will have considerably more resources to throw at Russia when the war comes (in a hopefully plausible setup). One of Weber's overall philosophies which diverges from Hitler's in certain ways will be applied again and again to the occupied territories, with varying degrees of success.
As for the Jews, there will (as of writing) still be a measure called the Final Solution, but as to what nature it takes...read on, friends.
Embarrassingly, I don't know a lot about the politics of early Soviet Russia!
Unfortunately, the butterflies adamantly refuse to cross the German borders so far, although the rest of the world will probably have different reactions to the mild-mannered, bespectacled Weber compared to the hot-headed demagogue Hitler.
Speaking of Stalin, have a slight spoiler for the Eastern Front. This may change in the future based on the narrative leading to war. The next part will go up later today!
PS: Cut it with the Max Weber gags! He wasn't even a veterinarian!!
Nice pic hahaha.
Will Weber still enact euthanizing mentally retarded, physically crippled (if they were born that way) and a few other cases or sterilization to "purify" the German gene-pool.
Also will the concept of Germanic/Nordic Aryanism survive the Party change in leadership? Will it be a core tenet if so
1.4 NSDAP Seizes Control of Germany
Patience, patience! They haven't even gotten into power yet!
Speaking of which...
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Despite the NSDAP’s large gains in the elections at the expense of the liberal bloc, the Catholic Centre Party failed to see issues beyond its own voter base and did not act against NSDAP beyond pushing for Paul von Hindenburg to run for President against Weber in the 1932 presidential election. Even then, Hindenburg was pressured to remove Chancellor Heinrich Brüning from power, as his measures to check the Depression had proved ineffective, and replace him with the Catholic monarchist Franz von Papen, who was supported by Minister of Defence Kurt von Schleicher. In a climate of continued political violence, where KPD and SA agitators continued to clash in public (all while Weber attempted to restrain the SA from conducting reprisals in the name of appearing to be the collective “better man”), Papen launched a putsch against the leftist government of Prussia, and attempted to consolidate his power by calling for elections immediately afterwards. He failed miserably, and NSDAP won a plurality of seats – 210 out of 608 – in July 1932.
This, however, was not enough to form a majority government, and von Papen continued as Chancellor until the December elections, in which NSDAP maintained its performance. His former backer Schleicher then convinced Hindenburg to sack von Papen. Göring, in his new position as President of the Reichstag, pushed for severe punishments for “political violence” – these punishments would be applied to devastating effect on the enemies of NSDAP. Schleicher’s government did not last long due to animosity with his own Cabinet, the rest of the Reichstag and the Reichswehr as led by Werner von Blomberg, who was convinced Schleicher would only stay in power by declaring martial law (which they would not agree to), and was eventually replaced by Hindenburg with a government led by Weber with Papen as vice-Chancellor, Papen believing that he could “box in” the NSDAP as they had yet to achieve a parliamentary majority.
Figures 10a and 10b: Papen and Schleicher, the last two Chancellors of Germany before Weber’s takeover.
However, the left hand of Schleicher’s machinations would clash so violently with the right hand of Papen’s plans that the result essentially destroyed the democracy of Germany. In his political exile, Schleicher contacted the disenfranchised Gregor Strasser and his brother Otto Strasser, promising them positions in his government should he return to power, aiming to drive a wedge into NSDAP and split it [1]. Then a new player re-entered the political game – Himmler, leader of the revived Frontbann, which had absorbed former Röhm supporters as well as members of the fascist (but not NSDAP-leaning) Stahlhelm organisation, presented himself to Scheicher and Strasser, promising the support of the Frontbann for a position in Schleicher’s government. With the support of Strasser and Himmler, Scheicher felt confident in taking on NSDAP. Recognising the threat to NSDAP, Weber denounced Strasser and berated him publicly in a NSDAP meeting; outlawed Himmler’s Frontbann under the measures passed by Göring and declared von Schleicher a “vile opportunist”. Himmler, for his role in organising a rival fascist organisation, came to be sarcastically referred to as "der treue Heinrich" (the loyal Heinrich) [2].
Then, on the night of 17th February, 1933 – in circumstances which are still unclear even to this day – an incredible explosion either caused by a bomb, a leaking gas main, or some form of sabotage, tore through NSDAP headquarters in Berlin, killing several members of the party staff. Weber had left the building a mere half an hour prior to the explosion. At the same time, Himmler was addressing an assembly of Frontbann supporters a few city blocks away, denouncing Weber and the NSDAP. Upon hearing the explosion and recognising its source, Himmler mobilised the assembly to march on the headquarters and attempt to gain political capital by restoring order following the explosion. It totally backfired, and SA forces poured out of the building, interpreting the massed Frontbann men as attempting a putsch. The street fighting that ensued was so intense that the night was eventually named Kristallnacht (“Crystal Night”; the name was a mocking reference to the broken glass littering the streets.) Himmler was killed in the fighting, his body found in a nearby tailor’s shop.
Figure 11: Himmler’s corpse.
Weber, when informed of the clash, was further convinced by Goebbels that Schleicher and the Strasser brothers were also plotting to overthrow the government, and ordered their entire group arrested. Weber told von Papen to contact Hindenburg immediately to grant him emergency powers, in what would come to be known as the Kristallnacht Decree. Having learned that some of the Frontbann supporters were rumoured to be disenfranchised members of the KPD, Weber was quick to associate Schleicher as plotting with the KPD and the Frontbann in an “opportunistic coup”, and employed the powers granted by the Kristallnacht Decree to detain as many opponents as he could. Having suppressed as much opposition as he could manage, Weber assembled the Reichstag to vote on the Enabling Act, which would allow him to pass legislation without the approval of the Reichstag. With the building surrounded by SA men, the Act passed without much objection, not even from Papen, who essentially had voted himself into irrelevance. The NSDAP takeover of Germany was almost complete. When Hindenburg passed away on 2nd August 1934, Weber installed Hess as President, fully understanding the latter would have no will beyond Weber’s.
[1] Schleicher attempted this in OTL but got Night of the Long-Knived for his trouble. Here he gets his comeuppance even earlier.
[2] He was called this in OTL, although sincerely.
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NEXT: Weber's Germany.
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The Mahnovite
Banned
That is some slick political wrangling. Weber K.O.-ed both sides of any possible opposition to his rule in a single blow. Like the simultaneos K.O. of Nick Knatterton(kudos for people familiar with this character).
Thank you all for following!
Also, I realise I've basically written Himmler as Bender here. ("I'll make my own Fascist party! With black uniforms and occultism!") Still, it's better than what he deserved.
But what of the Reichswehr, feeling marginalised and outnumbered by the extant SA? The next update will cover Weber's internal reforms, starting with the racial laws...
PS: A quick wiki search informs me that Nick Knatterton's a Holmes-style detective. Was he also adept at plotting?
You'd better believe it.Oh dear.
This is essentially the *Reichstag Fire, and it conveniently gets rid of the more socially (and economically) radical and occult elements of NSDAP (as well as those KPD fellows), leaving the militaristic, expansionist, racist and - dare I say it? - more pragmatic factions in command.
Also, I realise I've basically written Himmler as Bender here. ("I'll make my own Fascist party! With black uniforms and occultism!") Still, it's better than what he deserved.
But what of the Reichswehr, feeling marginalised and outnumbered by the extant SA? The next update will cover Weber's internal reforms, starting with the racial laws...
PS: A quick wiki search informs me that Nick Knatterton's a Holmes-style detective. Was he also adept at plotting?
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