Advance from the Romanian border to Stalingrad, then seize the Caucausus and Baku, then advance north to isolate Moscow from the east all in the first months of Barbarossa?
Not even remotely plausible.
Not even remotely plausible.
The bled white attempting to attack along the whole front. in the offensives after they pushed the Germans back from Moscow. Not during the first counter-attack in which the Germans were nearly routed.
Germany simply lacked the forces to encircle Moscow and attacking directly will end about as well as Rommel's first efforts to assault Toburk. The Heer was utterly worn out by the time it reached Moscow, while the Soviets had whole armies massed behind the capital.
Frankly the Germans forces are more likely to be cut-off trying to encircle or assult Moscow. The Red Army would pretty much have to throw down it's arms, and it showed no signs of doing that during the battle for Moscow.
Also saying the Germans ''could'' or ''should'' have taken Leningrad is a claim unsupported by any facts on the ground OTL, the fact is the city held and the German high-command (rightly) thought an assult on the city was unfeable and would serve only to weaken their forces by undertaking an attacks that were unlikely to succeed. And indeed might allow Soviet forces to break-through and (re)open supply-lines to the city.
Hm, nice writings... sadly useless cause you did not answer something
if i speak about "bleeding white" i never talk about the first 2hours of the operation, just the whole thing. So it looks senseless, if you talk about the first day of the operation
second - yes, from the german pov leningrad is needed.
if you look at the war in the northern sector, it was the will of the german troops (and the wrong decision in late august to not push something more), not the "defence"... not in july-september 41
later, no german army can dig out the russians... but in august? give em a few more divisions and game over. But if you have these troops only one time, you make decisions... here glady (for the world) the wrong ones...
So i kindly ask you to not answer only parts of the thing.
Thank you...
The title pretty much says it all?
If there was no chance of Barbarossa suceeding, then how far would you have to push the PoD back for the war to be succesful?
Hm, nice writings... sadly useless cause you did not answer something
if i speak about "bleeding white" i never talk about the first 2hours of the operation, just the whole thing. So it looks senseless, if you talk about the first day of the operation
second - yes, from the german pov leningrad is needed.
if you look at the war in the northern sector, it was the will of the german troops (and the wrong decision in late august to not push something more), not the "defence"... not in july-september 41
later, no german army can dig out the russians... but in august? give em a few more divisions and game over. But if you have these troops only one time, you make decisions... here glady (for the world) the wrong ones...
So i kindly ask you to not answer only parts of the thing.
Thank you...
Yes, there was. If the Nazis concentrated all forces aginst Moscow in the summer, they would take it and with that rip the very heart off the Soviet Union.
So you are proposing that the Germans concentrate their forces near-exclusively in the center, thus leaving large Soviet formations on their strategic flanks and adding even more burden to a logistics train that was incapable of supporting the OTL succession of advances with OTL forces?
Yeah, there is no way that plan couldn't end in anything short of total success, no way at all.![]()
But still not impossible to recover from. Eventually.It woould be a close run between the exhaustion of Soviet and German logistical resources. A timely fall of Moscow would be an immense blow for the Soviets - the city sits at the center of the railway and road net.
It woould be a close run between the exhaustion of Soviet and German logistical resources. A timely fall of Moscow would be an immense blow for the Soviets - the city sits at the center of the railway and road net.
But still not impossible to recover from. Eventually.
The bled white attempting to attack along the whole front. in the offensives after they pushed the Germans back from Moscow. Not during the first counter-attack in which the Germans were nearly routed.
Germany simply lacked the forces to encircle Moscow and attacking directly will end about as well as Rommel's first efforts to assault Toburk. The Heer was utterly worn out by the time it reached Moscow, while the Soviets had whole armies massed behind the capital.
Frankly the Germans forces are more likely to be cut-off trying to encircle or assult Moscow. The Red Army would pretty much have to throw down it's arms, and it showed no signs of doing that during the battle for Moscow.
Also saying the Germans ''could'' or ''should'' have taken Leningrad is a claim unsupported by any facts on the ground OTL, the fact is the city held and the German high-command (rightly) thought an assult on the city was unfeable and would serve only to weaken their forces by undertaking an attacks that were unlikely to succeed. And indeed might allow Soviet forces to break-through and (re)open supply-lines to the city.