Was the legion really that superior to the phalanx?

But Alexander and Phillip showed that the phalanx could be used on just about any terrain. I just think the successors misused them really badly.

Hmm... kinda.

I don't think you can use a literal sarissaphoros (top of page) in any terrain, however, that is not to say that a soldier that has the nomclature of 'sariossaphoroi' would not be able to be re-equipped to fight in a different style which could be used in different terrains. I understand that this is what Philip and Alexander did to make the phalanx more flexible.
 
But Alexander and Phillip showed that the phalanx could be used on just about any terrain. I just think the successors misused them really badly.

Of course, the phalanx units they commanded never fought infantry like the Roman legion either. So it might still have been exploitable (subject to great generals making fewer mistakes).
 
Of course, the phalanx units they commanded never fought infantry like the Roman legion either. So it might still have been exploitable (subject to great generals making fewer mistakes).

Sure they did. The Roman legion fought very similarly to Celtic, Illyrian, and other groups along the border with Macedon that Phillip fought. The Roman style of warfare borrowed a lot from that of the Celts.
 
I’ve just remembered something – didn’t the Successor kings after Alexander also lengthen the spears of the phalanx, making them more unwieldy than they’d been at the time of Alexander?
 
Sure they did. The Roman legion fought very similarly to Celtic, Illyrian, and other groups along the border with Macedon that Phillip fought. The Roman style of warfare borrowed a lot from that of the Celts.

Other than the huge difference that the Roman legion fought as a disciplined formation of soldiers and not individual warriors?

I'm pretty sure the Celts and kindred also used longer swords (than the legionary standard) with more emphasizing on swinging/cutting than thrusting.

And not unimportantly, less regular use of armor (armor is expensive), though this may be less true in this period than as Rome's army gets increasingly standardized equipment.

That's not to say the Romans didn't borrow from the Celts, but they didn't just copy their style of fighting.
 
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I’ve just remembered something – didn’t the Successor kings after Alexander also lengthen the spears of the phalanx, making them more unwieldy than they’d been at the time of Alexander?

Yes, I believe they did. I presume that would also make them less flexible as a fighting force.

@Elfwine, I agree mostly.
 
I’ve just remembered something – didn’t the Successor kings after Alexander also lengthen the spears of the phalanx, making them more unwieldy than they’d been at the time of Alexander?

I wonder what the rationale was? Was this the product of an arms race between phalanx based armies? (The longer pointy stick wins?)
 
I wonder what the rationale was? Was this the product of an arms race between phalanx based armies? (The longer pointy stick wins?)

Thats what I have read. However, unlike other phalanx armies, the roman legions did not care how long these damn sticks are. :D
From a roman legates point of view, the length of the stick was tactically irrelevant.
 
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Hhhm, ... a big organizational and strategical unit composed of standardized subunits and attached special units, acting as tactical units, also independently if needed.

Sounds like the 12th German Tank Division I served in 1979/80.

Never revived?

PS: I can confirm, that there is no Phalanx in the german army. At least not with tank forces. However, I have no clue, what these crazy infanterists are doing nowadays ;)

Alexander at least drilled the phalanx into "battalions" (taxis) which did fight as independent units on occasion. The tactics against the persian chariots depended on the subunits (syntaga) maneuvering independently

The advantage that the legion had was continuity in its development. The Successors went down the dead end of the old Greek tactics of the biggest, deepest phalanx with the longest stick
 
Yeah the successors took a step backwards. Still though, in the east at least, Antiochus used his phalanx more like Alexander did.

I guess the longer pikes and the general step backwards in flexibility though can be attributed to the fact that their main opponents were other phalanxes. If one side has the longer stick, then the other phalanx has a problem...
 
That's not to say the Romans didn't borrow from the Celts, but they didn't just copy their style of fighting.

Agreed. One thing I feel you can say about the Romans is that they were absolutely fantastic at taking those things that worked and incorporating it into their system.

They were anything but rigid... althought they were highly disciplined.
 
Thats what I have read. However, unlike other phalanx armies, the roman legions did not care how long these damn sticks are. :D
From a roman legates point of view, the length of the stick was tactically irrelevant.

In fact, the longer the stick the more easily outmaneuvered you were. Which may have exacerbated the later period phalanx vs Alexandrian phalanx.
 
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