Was the Imperial Federation possible???

samcster94

Banned
A reason why Canada, Australia, NZ, and ZA to a lesser extent were all given autonomy were to have Britain rule indirectly with them more as provinces. Was it possible to make the "white colonies" at least a Federation??? I know Australia had a strong nationalist streak Canada and NZ lacked, but can't remember why.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Far from impossible. I believe version were considered at least three times as far back as the first half of the 1800's. You need a person better with British details to give you the list.

And generally, it fell apart on the same issue. It was not creating lesser parliaments with lesser powers for Ireland, NZ or whatever. The issue was demoting the English parliament to one of many parliaments. And then there is the issue of the House of Lords. The English imperial system greatly benefited the English elite which were mostly near London.

But since it was seriously considered at times by at least some important politicians, then it was easily possible. You just need something to make the loss of power by the English elites to be outweighed by something else. You need a threat to the British Empire that is serious enough and long lasting enough for reforms to occur. So handwavium, France or German dominate Europe after some wars or series of wars. England lacks the funding/manpower to have a large enough army and navy to counter the threat. Given the right other factors, a imperial federation could arise.

We should also not minimize how much power England is losing. Even without House of Lords reform and white only sufferage, we can easily see England consistently outvoted on issues. In many ways, the British Empire faced the same dilemma the Roman empire faced, but chose a different path. Rome chose to expand citizenship and let non-Roman rise to the top. England chose to keep the power in English (London) hands. This is one of the many reasons Rome lasted so much longer than London as a power center. The glory of the British Empire is really only about 150 years. Rome is 500 plus depending on how you count things.
 
If you want it later you can try around or after WW2 a successful Franco British union might be up for it because one of their concerns was natives outnumbering Europeans but with more Europeans (France) and fewer natives (decolonization) if they adopt it they might be more successful in keeping their colonies in this period.
 

DougM

Donor
Yeah England liked to keep power at home.
I seam to recall something about that in the history books.
Seams like it did not work out to well in 1776
If they were willing to play even with folks then a good chance the US as we know it never happens.
 
If an accord could have been reached with the revolutionary Americans, it may well have set a precedent for the rest of the Empire, or at least North America, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. Racial attitudes are unlikely to have extended such a federal approach to the likes of India and most of Africa, not until the mid 20th century anyway.
 

samcster94

Banned
Far from impossible. I believe version were considered at least three times as far back as the first half of the 1800's. You need a person better with British details to give you the list.

And generally, it fell apart on the same issue. It was not creating lesser parliaments with lesser powers for Ireland, NZ or whatever. The issue was demoting the English parliament to one of many parliaments. And then there is the issue of the House of Lords. The English imperial system greatly benefited the English elite which were mostly near London.

But since it was seriously considered at times by at least some important politicians, then it was easily possible. You just need something to make the loss of power by the English elites to be outweighed by something else. You need a threat to the British Empire that is serious enough and long lasting enough for reforms to occur. So handwavium, France or German dominate Europe after some wars or series of wars. England lacks the funding/manpower to have a large enough army and navy to counter the threat. Given the right other factors, a imperial federation could arise.

We should also not minimize how much power England is losing. Even without House of Lords reform and white only sufferage, we can easily see England consistently outvoted on issues. In many ways, the British Empire faced the same dilemma the Roman empire faced, but chose a different path. Rome chose to expand citizenship and let non-Roman rise to the top. England chose to keep the power in English (London) hands. This is one of the many reasons Rome lasted so much longer than London as a power center. The glory of the British Empire is really only about 150 years. Rome is 500 plus depending on how you count things.
So, a "Napoleon Wins"(or a similar leader in any major European power)Scenario who dominates Europe for decades might lead Britain to this??
 

samcster94

Banned
Yeah England liked to keep power at home.
I seam to recall something about that in the history books.
Seams like it did not work out to well in 1776
If they were willing to play even with folks then a good chance the US as we know it never happens.
Obviously. The "perfect storm" seemed to just happen then. It, in my opinion, could have been avoided with better leadership. I also think the British could have won that war had the French had less interest in fighting back(after losing Canada and New Orleans).
 
Yeah England liked to keep power at home.
I seam to recall something about that in the history books.
Seams like it did not work out to well in 1776
If they were willing to play even with folks then a good chance the US as we know it never happens.
Yeah, maybe. The revolutionaries weren't exactly innocent.

The Dominions were a reaction to the US Revolution. Basically it was an acceptance that isolated populations were going to want to run themselves one day so the system has to be able to handle them leaving reasonably peacefully.

Ultimately any Union is going to hit a difficulties when different parts of the entity have different priorities. Eg, Australia was a bit more worried about Japan than the UK ever was. But the UK is quite reasonably never going to commit the resources (which it has the most of) and you would be flat out convincing the other Domionions to commit either.
 
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