Was the Abolition of the French Monarchy Inevitable?

It seemed early on that the Kingdom of France would be turned into a British system, but as the Revolution carried on, it only grew more and more radical. This leaves the question, was the abolition of the monarchy inevitable, even without events such as Varennes or the rise of Barat and Robespierre?
 
Not but Louis XIV did put all his succesor they've to managed it perfectly or the institution would only flatter, OTL was the most incompetent ones in line...that killed the institution
 
Depends on the POD. Then again, it could be argued that the abolition of monarchy in general is inevitable.
 
Depends on the POD. Then again, it could be argued that the abolition of monarchy in general is inevitable.

Disagree there. Nothing is inevitable. Indeed in some countries which have abolished monarchies there’s been some who’ve wanted them restored
 
Disagree there. Nothing is inevitable. Indeed in some countries which have abolished monarchies there’s been some who’ve wanted them restored
Till it happen, as say before, post Louis XIV,the bourbons always choose the worst choice possible and ended up losing the right amount of war...Louis XVI just got the worst luck and failed.
 
Till it happen, as say before, post Louis XIV,the bourbons always choose the worst choice possible and ended up losing the right amount of war...Louis XVI just got the worst luck and failed.
Indeed even then it could’ve been avoided
 
Not inevitable but the ancien regime could not continue as it was, things had to change.

The series isn't perfect, but when Mike Duncan's revolutions podcast covered the french revolution he did a very good job at illustrating many of the potential divergence points.
 
Absolutely not. Even after the revolution the end of the monarchy was hardly inevitable. Hell, France might still be a Kingdom today if Henri, the Comte de Chambord hadn't rejected the throne over a flag. If anything, I'd argue that France being a republic today is more of a fluke, and that it ended up as one through a pretty random series of events.

The abolition of the monarchy really was the result of a series of poor/medicore Kings, the prevelance of reactionary revanchism and in my opinion, most importantly, natural disasters such as bad harvests (the revolutions of 1789, 1830 and 1848 were all accompanied by bad harvests, which was surely no coincidence).

Keepinig the monarchy around can be done with a POD as late as 1870 by having the Comte de Chambord accepting the Tricolor as the French flag, or as early as 1789 by having Louis XVI making better decisions during the Estates-General.

Although, I should add the caveat that, while the monarchy could survive, the Ancien Regime, in most circumstances, probably couldn't. By the time of Louis XVI the Ancien Regime had simply ceased working, as the economic crisis could simply not be solved without major, systemic change.

However there was no guarantee that the constitution of 1791 would fail, that the Bourbon Restoration would fail or that the July Monarchy would fail. Had some small things gone differently, things could have been drastically different.

If any of the later Bourbons had compromised and accepted a more British system of government, they could probably have held onto their throne.
 
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Again disagree, Revolution is never inevitable
I was following my own line of thought, the post Louis XIV french state was unsustainable without a strong king and even that was already overstrained, later on all their defeats and misspend(SYW, United states revolution,etc) emptied the french treasury, the merchants and peasants were their limits, all was there, the powder keg just need a spark and Louis XVI just added greek fire to it.
 
I was following my own line of thought, the post Louis XIV french state was unsustainable without a strong king and even that was already overstrained, later on all their defeats and misspend(SYW, United states revolution,etc) emptied the french treasury, the merchants and peasants were their limits, all was there, the powder keg just need a spark and Louis XVI just added greek fire to it.

Indeed all it would take was one or two capable Kings to see off some of the errors that Louis XV had made otl, or avoid them and I think the revolution will be avoided
 
Indeed all it would take was one or two capable Kings to see off some of the errors that Louis XV had made otl, or avoid them and I think the revolution will be avoided
Still is walking on thin Ice, depends a lot of factors...unironically not supporting a US revolution could help, not spend money on it
 
If France is to remain monarchist to the modern day, either King Louis XVI, stays in favor by agreeing to the reforms he was against in OTL or Napoleon is able to successfully subjugate the Russians and at least cripple Great Britain enough that the British give up on deposing the Emperor. Even if option 2 happens, the French must quell any revolt of it's vassal states and maintain it's power. Not only that, but Napoleon III has to be a better leader than he was OTL.

The better option is if King Louis XVI agrees to the establishment of a constitutional monarchy. One similar to that of GB. In any event Louis XVI has to agree to his powers being limited and some type of representative government being established. If this lasted to taday, the French Crown would be seen in the same vain as the English Crown, more symbolic than being true monarchs.
 
Still is walking on thin Ice, depends a lot of factors...unironically not supporting a US revolution could help, not spend money on it

Indeed, but then every political system is on thin ice.

If France is to remain monarchist to the modern day, either King Louis XVI, stays in favor by agreeing to the reforms he was against in OTL or Napoleon is able to successfully subjugate the Russians and at least cripple Great Britain enough that the British give up on deposing the Emperor. Even if option 2 happens, the French must quell any revolt of it's vassal states and maintain it's power. Not only that, but Napoleon III has to be a better leader than he was OTL.

The better option is if King Louis XVI agrees to the establishment of a constitutional monarchy. One similar to that of GB. In any event Louis XVI has to agree to his powers being limited and some type of representative government being established. If this lasted to taday, the French Crown would be seen in the same vain as the English Crown, more symbolic than being true monarchs.

Not sure those are the only two options, surely the Restored monarchy in 1815, could've survived had a Louis XVIII type figure been around post 1824
 
Indeed, but then every political system is on thin ice.



Not sure those are the only two options, surely the Restored monarchy in 1815, could've survived had a Louis XVIII type figure been around post 1824


You may have a point. I think though the most likely way the monarchy survives lies with the path that is able to incorporate enlightenment values most successfully. The core struggle of the French Revolution was the old absolutist system vs the enlightenment belief that a any form of government is subject to the consent of the governed.
 
You may have a point. I think though the most likely way the monarchy survives lies with the path that is able to incorporate enlightenment values most successfully. The core struggle of the French Revolution was the old absolutist system vs the enlightenment belief that a any form of government is subject to the consent of the governed.

Hmm interesting, I do think that if France had avoided the revolution completely it would've been a lot better, but then that's just my view. In the scenario to get it to survive post revolution, I think you're right, somewhere between what it was and what some might want it to be. A completely neutered monarchy is good for no one. As we're seeing nowadays
 
Hmm interesting, I do think that if France had avoided the revolution completely it would've been a lot better, but then that's just my view. In the scenario to get it to survive post revolution, I think you're right, somewhere between what it was and what some might want it to be. A completely neutered monarchy is good for no one. As we're seeing nowadays

Imperial France might have the best chance. Napoleon's reign saw France adopt the most enlightenment ideals than in any part of French History. The challenge lies in how the Bonaparte Dynasty could stay in favor in the eyes of the French people.
 
Of course not, had history gone just a little differently France would be a constitutional monarchy today under the Bourbon dynasty. Hell, I could even imagine a surviving Napoleonic France, especially after Napoleon III since he made many crucial mistakes that could have been avoided. Remember that as late as the 1940s there was a significant conservative bloc that mistrusted the legacy of the French Revolution.
 
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