Oh me, oh my. What a ... loaded ... question.
Yes, back when 'Spain' meant Iberian nations fighting the reconquista, with certain shared cultural values, and mostly related languages, why then yes, i believe Portugal was part of that concept.
I even believe the Portuguese were very annoyed when Castille-Aragon usurped the term for their nation.
We've even had.discussions where Portugal and Leon, rather than. Castille-Aragon and Leon, formed the nucleus for the large state on the peninsula which would be called Spain, with Castille being the small, more isolated country with the odd language.
Yes, back when 'Spain' meant Iberian nations fighting the reconquista, with certain shared cultural values, and mostly related languages, why then yes, i believe Portugal was part of that concept.
I even believe the Portuguese were very annoyed when Castille-Aragon usurped the term for their nation.
We've even had.discussions where Portugal and Leon, rather than. Castille-Aragon and Leon, formed the nucleus for the large state on the peninsula which would be called Spain, with Castille being the small, more isolated country with the odd language.
Pretty much this.
Spain was an equivalent term to Iberia, the Iberian Peninsula, etc.
The Christian Iberian nations occasionally were referred to as the Spains (compare the Germanies).
OP meant before Castile became Spain.
edit:
In fact if I am not wrong Iberia became the predominant name for the peninsula as a replacement to the more well known name Hispania/Spain that had been used until that time. In such a case that Iberia had been the more widespread term in the 18th century the country would be known as Kingdom of Iberia today.
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Lusitania
Donor
Hell no,
As some have stated there was a time that we were part of a greater country but that was prior to 1139 when we became independent. The portion that was part of the great Middle Ages kingdom of Castile, Leon and Galicia was portugalense. That only included present day Portugal north of coimbra.
Since 1139 we have been independent thank you very much. Even from 1580-1640 we still were independent of Spain and king in Madrid was the king of both Spain and Portugal.
Hope that resolves any linguering doubts.
As some have stated there was a time that we were part of a greater country but that was prior to 1139 when we became independent. The portion that was part of the great Middle Ages kingdom of Castile, Leon and Galicia was portugalense. That only included present day Portugal north of coimbra.
Since 1139 we have been independent thank you very much. Even from 1580-1640 we still were independent of Spain and king in Madrid was the king of both Spain and Portugal.
Hope that resolves any linguering doubts.
The others stated that you considered yourselves spanish before the creation of spain but you claim that you did not identity as spanish even before that.
People are using words to mean different things here
Portugal did not consider itself Castilian or Aragonese - when a union of Castile and Aragon produced what we now call Spain, Portugal did not think it had anything to do with that
But back when we are talking Leon, Castile, Navarre, Aragon and other states, then Portugal had a role in common with those upon the peninsular, and thus considered itself "Spanish" as that was the more common name for the peninsular
Portugal did not consider itself Castilian or Aragonese - when a union of Castile and Aragon produced what we now call Spain, Portugal did not think it had anything to do with that
But back when we are talking Leon, Castile, Navarre, Aragon and other states, then Portugal had a role in common with those upon the peninsular, and thus considered itself "Spanish" as that was the more common name for the peninsular
Lusitania
Donor
Portuguesese culture existed for hundreds of years before Spain was born. While now people talk about Spanish culture it did not exist till the 18th or 19th century. Spain was the union of several countries. Namely Castile and Aragon. But even Castile comprised of several nationalities. Galicians do not speak Spanish their language is closer to Portuguese and part of same linguistic group. Asturia, Leon and Andalusia were all part of Castile also but distinct from castilie.
Never mind basque and other regions. So for people to dat we part of Spain is nuts. We have our own language and culture that Has existed for almost 900 years.
The only similarity we have with Spain is we share same Peninsula.
At that time Spain and Iberia had the same meaning and Portugal logically was part of it and thinked to be part of it and obviously stopped to think that when Ferdinand and Isabella used the named Spain for the union of their Kingdoms (and in Portugal and likely Navarre were pretty annoyed by that name choice)
We were talking about at time in which Spain had the same meaning of Iberia (better Iberia, Iberian became the replacement names of Spain, Spains and spanish when Ferdinand and Isabella used that names for their kingdom)
But we are not talking about the modern spanish nation or culture, we are talking about the time when spain meant the whole of the iberian peninsula. Back then portugal was no more different to castille than aragon.
Agreed with your point, but did the Habsburgs use that name? I was under the assumption that the crowns of Castile and Aragon became Spain only after the Bourbon got the crown.
Lusitania
Donor
Exactly if we making that distinction Portugalense not Portugal was considered part of Spain till 1139 since then it has gone through many wars and effort to keep its identity. The Portuguese declared their independence from Castile and while Papal recognition took a few years the recognition by Rome of Portuguese independence meant that Portugal was no longer under the jurisdiction of the Emperor of Spain.
Lusitania
Donor
There was an attempt during the 9-12 century for the king of Castile to be considered the Emperor of Spain. A title that neither Aragon or Portugal accepted. Well the Portuguese did not after they declared their independence and received papal recognition as independent nation.
I've been reading this thread, and the only thing I've noticed is that you seem to be ignoring what everyone is saying to push your own national pride into things.
Portugal's independence or lackthereof isn't actually relevant. The term 'Spain' once upon a time had the same meaning as 'Iberia' or 'Hispania' or whatever other name was used for the peninsular west of the Pyrenees. A peninsula that geographically Portugal belongs to. So regardless of whether or not Portugal is its own kingdom or in union with Castille/Aragon, once upon a time it was included under the umbrella term 'Spain' just like how today we consider it to be a part of 'Iberia' or the 'Iberian Peninsula'.
Lusitania
Donor
I did research the term Spain and also read up on some Portuguese historical books and want to specify few pointers. The term Spain meaning all of the Iberian Peninsula was a term used during the Middle Ages. It was an attempt by several kings to create an equivalent to the Holy Roman Emperor as was first used in the 10th century. It was claimed by several kings of Castile of which the county of Portugalense was part of. In 1139 the Portuguese rebelled against Castile but were not recognized as a sovereign nation for few decades. Till the recognition that Portugal was not under the "umbrella" of the Emperor of Spain yes Portugalense and Portugal did belong to Castile. So as I did indicated before we were part of the Spain terminology.
The distinction that I made was that following the recognition of Pope that Portugal was a free and independent nation we stopped being linked to Castile, Leon or Galicia and developed our own culture and language distinct from other nations on the Peninsula. The Portguese King was no longer under the "Emperor of Spain" so therefore Portugal stopped be9ng part of Spain.
Actually the term used was Imperator Totius Hispaniae Emperor of all Hispania, implying dominion over the entire peninsula known as Hispania i.e. what we now call Iberia.
The King of Portugal not being subject politically to said self-proclaimed emperor makes no difference to whether it was geographically part of the territory referred to as Hispania.
This is the point being made.
The whole reason we use Iberia today is because the long-term political union of Castile, Leon, Aragon (and Navarre), and colloquial shorthand use of all the royal titles as "King of Spain" shifted Hispania/Spain as applying to just the collection of kingdoms rather than the peninsula.
Lusitania
Donor
You see there is a huge difference between saying that Portugal is in Hispania which is a historical term used since Roman time till Middle Ages to identify the Iberian Peninsula and saying Portugal was part of Espanha / Spain which means a country. The two do not mean the same thing. You cannot interchange the two.
So yes to first but no to the second.
You are aware that Espanha was originally merely a local way of saying Hispania?
We aren't confusing them. We're explaining how the latter evolved from the former. You're the one who seems to be confusing the two by insisting Portugal became independent from a state that didn't exist yet. In 1139 Espanha = Hispania = Iberia. There was no kingdom or state named any of these.