One of the things I've always wondered about Operation Blue (and I'm guessing there have been threads similar to this done before), is what could've happened had the Germans stuck to their primary objective of taking the Caucasus oil fields, instead of allowing themselves to become bogged down in Stalingrad?
I recently watched an episode of a Russian documentary "Soviet Storm" on Youtube, about the Caucasus campaign, in which it stated that Field Marshall List's original intention was to have von Kleist's 1st Panzer Army take an old, Georgian military road through the central Caucasus in a direct route to Maikop, but Hitler vetoed it for an attack through the western passes, with the objective here being the bases of the Black Sea Fleet (not the Oil Fields?); I also know that von Manstein wanted the 11th army to cross the Kerch peninsula in support of Army Group A, instead of being stripped of units and sent to Leningrad. Had 11th army crossed over to Kerch, it could've avoided the mountains and most major soviet units and continued on to the ports, thus allowing von Kleist to take the direct route. Are any of these possibilities feasible, and could they have turned the tide in favour of the Germans?
I also did some reading on Operation Shamil (named after Imam Shamyl, the 19th century Caucasus rebel), whereby the Germans were planning to send in an SS guard regiment, a Cossack regiment, and a unit of Muslim commandoes organized and led by the Brandenburgers, behind Soviet lines to capture important objectives; in the end, only Maikop was captured, and it had been very thoroughly destroyed by the Soviets. I also recently purchased a book called "Hitler Triumphant!: Alternate Histories of WWII", edited by Lt. Col. Peter G. Tsouras, USAR (ret.), consisting of scenarios written by various writers and historians, all of which are ways in which Nazi Germany could've won, or at least survived WWII; one scenario surrounds a much more successful and less bloody Germany capture of Crete, resulting in greater faith being placed in airborne ops. by Hitler, ending in a series of Airborne landings in the Caucasus to capture the oil fields and hold them till 1st Panzer Army arrives. Now, I have my doubts about this scenario, which involves the 7th Flieger, 22nd Luftlande, 5th & 6th Gebirgs and 99th Jager divisionen, as well as the Luftlande sturm regiment being flown in to Maikop, Grozny and Baku in the span of two weeks, and holding till relieved, but on a less grandiose scale, could airborne operations have succeeded in supporting the German drive on the Oil Fields?
There are also other events, such as the destruction of the Terek river dam (after it had been seized by the Brandenburgers) by the soviets, which slowed down the German advance, and the diversion south of the 4th Panzer Army, which exacerbated logistical problems, slowed 1sr Panzer armies' advance and weakened army group B's drive on Stalingrad. Had one or both of these events never taken place, or had been prevented, could the speed of the German advance have been maintained?
Basicly, my question is, wass there anything that could've happened, or that the Germans could have done that could've led to a German success in the Caucasus? More importantly, If the Germans HAD succeeded in the Caucasus, how would they exploit this success? Any feed back or info would be very much appreciated (sorry if my intro is very long
).
I recently watched an episode of a Russian documentary "Soviet Storm" on Youtube, about the Caucasus campaign, in which it stated that Field Marshall List's original intention was to have von Kleist's 1st Panzer Army take an old, Georgian military road through the central Caucasus in a direct route to Maikop, but Hitler vetoed it for an attack through the western passes, with the objective here being the bases of the Black Sea Fleet (not the Oil Fields?); I also know that von Manstein wanted the 11th army to cross the Kerch peninsula in support of Army Group A, instead of being stripped of units and sent to Leningrad. Had 11th army crossed over to Kerch, it could've avoided the mountains and most major soviet units and continued on to the ports, thus allowing von Kleist to take the direct route. Are any of these possibilities feasible, and could they have turned the tide in favour of the Germans?
I also did some reading on Operation Shamil (named after Imam Shamyl, the 19th century Caucasus rebel), whereby the Germans were planning to send in an SS guard regiment, a Cossack regiment, and a unit of Muslim commandoes organized and led by the Brandenburgers, behind Soviet lines to capture important objectives; in the end, only Maikop was captured, and it had been very thoroughly destroyed by the Soviets. I also recently purchased a book called "Hitler Triumphant!: Alternate Histories of WWII", edited by Lt. Col. Peter G. Tsouras, USAR (ret.), consisting of scenarios written by various writers and historians, all of which are ways in which Nazi Germany could've won, or at least survived WWII; one scenario surrounds a much more successful and less bloody Germany capture of Crete, resulting in greater faith being placed in airborne ops. by Hitler, ending in a series of Airborne landings in the Caucasus to capture the oil fields and hold them till 1st Panzer Army arrives. Now, I have my doubts about this scenario, which involves the 7th Flieger, 22nd Luftlande, 5th & 6th Gebirgs and 99th Jager divisionen, as well as the Luftlande sturm regiment being flown in to Maikop, Grozny and Baku in the span of two weeks, and holding till relieved, but on a less grandiose scale, could airborne operations have succeeded in supporting the German drive on the Oil Fields?
There are also other events, such as the destruction of the Terek river dam (after it had been seized by the Brandenburgers) by the soviets, which slowed down the German advance, and the diversion south of the 4th Panzer Army, which exacerbated logistical problems, slowed 1sr Panzer armies' advance and weakened army group B's drive on Stalingrad. Had one or both of these events never taken place, or had been prevented, could the speed of the German advance have been maintained?
Basicly, my question is, wass there anything that could've happened, or that the Germans could have done that could've led to a German success in the Caucasus? More importantly, If the Germans HAD succeeded in the Caucasus, how would they exploit this success? Any feed back or info would be very much appreciated (sorry if my intro is very long