Just curious because there's a couple of time lines where Douglas MacArthur became dictator.I found the concept weird because democracy(at least for white,protestant men),seems to be a fundamental principle in the US since the beginning.There's also a lot of people who own guns in the US and the country is so decentralized(elected governors having command over national guard units) that any attempt will probably start another civil war.So was it possible at all to institute a dictatorship during the Great Depression?
Was a military coup possible at all in the US between the 1930s and the 1940s?
- Thread starter darthfanta
- Start date
The idea of an actual Business Plot with the virulently anti-Semitic and Social Darwinist General Mosley Van Horn instead of Smedley Butler has been floated once or twice.
Unless he's being written by a grossly overrated AH writer with a bird-themed name.
Problem is how do them realistically pull this off?First they will have to convince the commanders,and then the troops.Will the troops simply obey every order their commander told them,including ones that are clearly illegal?Would that trigger a mutiny?And then there's the state governors.I doubt every one of them would be a fan of the plot and would actually revolt with their national guard.Even if you take them down,how do you satisfy the public?I really don't think they would be fond of what's happened,and a lot of them would be armed.
Restoring law, order and respect for private property and free enterprise from the attacks of the godless communists.
Engineer a credible internal "Red Fifth Column" and the average american will enthusiastically salute the new George Washington saving the Republic from internal and external enemies even more if the head of the cabal tried to hide in plain sight in the White House.
Engineer a credible internal "Red Fifth Column" and the average american will enthusiastically salute the new George Washington saving the Republic from internal and external enemies even more if the head of the cabal tried to hide in plain sight in the White House.
They can try, but they will fail. First of all the US Army was only about 100,000 people at the time, and most of the army would refuse to shoot at their fellow citizens. The people would oppose this, and every state in the union would start a revolt over it. If they did this the best they can hope for is being shot like a solider rather than being sent to the electric chair like a common criminal.
It wasn't a bad timeline. All Second American Civil War timelines need a little bit of silliness in them.
The problem is that the "business plot" was basically some rich old guys complaining about Roosevelt. They didn't actually attempt to do anything.
I say nope. The country is just too big. Even at the time of the Civil war, when most of the west was still undeveloped country, we had a- well, a civil war instead of a coup of malcontent army officers. In my opinion anywhere after the Louisiana Purchase, definitely after the inclusion of Texas and California, there were just too many states with too much power of their own. Even today all the talk you here is of secceding from the government, never of overtrowing the government. That should tell us something.
Hence "actual", necessitating more planning by those old fogeys than none at all.
My opinion is that a successful military coup is next to impossible,but if a coup had to be done,how could it be done in a way that's as realistic as possible gambling upon the meager chance of success(so basically,a lot of wanking,lot of luck,but no ASB)?
Well, what does the junta when governors start disobeying their directives? National guard is directly subordinated to them. There is also a USMC, navy. And as others said, the army itself starts deserting in no time. You'd need some large scale upheaval in the States to make this even a remote possibility. Large scale natural disaster, actual foreign invasion, alien invasion or an infective disease wiping out large proportion of population.
Depression was obviously not enough, so more severe depression? But how more severe can it get?
Not at any point in OTL, with FDR as President. He did well enough to avoid the breakdown of civil order.
If Zangara had killed him, if Garner had broken down under the strain of office...
And if the Presidency somehow fell into the hands of a nascent dictator or outright revolutionary, or a weakling who failed to cope with breakdown of civil order (say a fascist takeover of California; Communist-led worker militias seizing factories and establishing communes in the Rust Belt)...
Then the Army might intervene to restore order.
TinyTartar
Banned
The Business Plot, if not an outright hoax, was way overexaggerated in its potential and severity.
I don't see this happening. The country was so big and decentralized with no state security apparatus to speak of and no centralized press either to allow a military coup to occur.
Now, a dire depression and a government that slowly but surely starts getting more authoritarian in reaction to Communist or Fascist disturbances, much like the Eastern European democracies in the 30s, is possible. You'd need a Democrat in the White House for this kind of thing; the Republicans, still, were all about small government and small military expenditures. Huey Long is floated as a candidate for this quite often in ATLs.
I don't see this happening. The country was so big and decentralized with no state security apparatus to speak of and no centralized press either to allow a military coup to occur.
Now, a dire depression and a government that slowly but surely starts getting more authoritarian in reaction to Communist or Fascist disturbances, much like the Eastern European democracies in the 30s, is possible. You'd need a Democrat in the White House for this kind of thing; the Republicans, still, were all about small government and small military expenditures. Huey Long is floated as a candidate for this quite often in ATLs.
Heard the guy was basically just plagiarizing.Do mods have the same programs as universities?I wonder how they managed to find plagiarism.
...at one point I thought I got what you are referring to, but then I just... didn't.