[Wars of the Rose AH} - Irish Independence?

See above. Could the Irish (under a historical figure of the time or ahistorically created one), have secured their independence and expelled English rule from the island? Perhaps this could have happened if the Wars went longer or were more bloody for England?Bonus points if they also take the Isle of Man to boot!
 
Ireland wasn't exactly unified back then. Too many competing clans, as well as the integrated Hiberneo-Normans and the less integrated English settlers. During the war various Irish groups apparently drove back the Pale to around Dublin. Something will need to be done with the various supporters of the Wars of the Roses who had land in Ireland. Have them fall from grace, their armies destroyed in England, whatever. I feel the Geraldine/FitzGerlads might be a group to look into, if only for how the Cross of St. Patrick in the Union Jack comes from their cost of arms.

http://www.libraryireland.com/JoyceHistory/Roses.php
 
> Ireland wasn't exactly unified back then.

Mhm, but neither was Scotland when William Wallace popped up.

> Too many competing clans, as well as the integrated Hiberneo-Normans and the less integrated English settlers. During the war various Irish groups apparently drove back the Pale to around Dublin. Something will need to be done with the various supporters of the Wars of the Roses who had land in Ireland. Have them fall from grace, their armies destroyed in England, whatever. I feel the Geraldine/FitzGerlads might be a group to look into, if only for how the Cross of St. Patrick in the Union Jack comes from their cost of arms.

I'd imagine the Hiberno-Normans would be much the same as the Normans in Scotland (of which Wallace might have been one): Largely acceptable at this point in time.
 
> Ireland wasn't exactly unified back then.

Mhm, but neither was Scotland when William Wallace popped up.

I'd imagine the Hiberno-Normans would be much the same as the Normans in Scotland (of which Wallace might have been one): Largely acceptable at this point in time.

Wallace was significant, but he was defeated and killed. Scotland found in Robert Bruce a clear leader (of Norman ancestry) who sorta managed to unify the country, among other things, because of his ancestry connected to a pre-existing royal line, which Ireland, AFAIK, lacked.
 
Ireland lacks an established royal line, yeah. Pretty much anyone in Ireland can call back a lineage to one petty king or hero. Having someone of a neutral background unattached to the various feuds and issues might be for the best? I mean Edward Bruce was offered the High Kingship of Ireland in the 1300s when his claims were somewhat historical in nature. Another person rising to the fore a century and a half later might not have been impossible...
 
It's also a bit of an overstatement to say England ruled Ireland. The Kings of England may be Lords of Ireland but they tended to rule through local lords.
 
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