Wargame: Modern Fleet Action

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Matt, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. KuboCaskett Resident Japanophile

    Jul 3, 2014
    Indiana, USA
    I don't know much about modern naval warfare outside of the fact that missiles, torpedoes and small guns are in play but I will say that battleships (at least the type of the WWII and before) aren't much practical anymore (and probably none at all); the closest you'd get are the type like the Arsenal and Kirov ships with one big cannon and a massive amount of missiles (paraphrasing Spacebattle's war room rules on that one). The only way gun based naval battles would make a comeback is if the anti-missile technology is so great that missiles as a weapon are either outdated or regulated to secondary roles and even then something with greater range and tech to do so is needed.
  2. Mike D Well-Known Member

    Nov 30, 2013
    Although that's true, a carrier battle group is somewhere between 5 and 10 ships (roughly) probably travelling at somewhere around 25 or 30 knots. Freighters don't usually do that.
    James G likes this.
  3. CV12Hornet Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2013
    An assumption, yes. Another reason why I want a more detailed composition of the OPFOR. British subs don’t carry antiship missiles, and French subs have such limited weapons stowage that I doubt they can afford to carry many Exocets. Russian subs, on the other hand...

    Ideally, yes. A CBG has a couple SSNs in its screen, tied to it in defensive positions, and we are discussing CBG on CBG action.

    The discussions I’ve seen on other sites suggest the NORPAC 82 events are still relevant, even against such heavily defended coastlines such as China.

    As for OTH radar, apparently the speed and number of vessels doesn’t matter for whatever reason. The number of vessels problem I can guess at - CBGs are widely dispersed in a combat zone, not bunched up tight like in most photos. And in a shooting war we might have convoys. Speed... *shrugs*
  4. Matt The Onion Knight Donor

    Mar 1, 2004
    Maryland USA
    Sorry for the delay, work has been unusually busy. I had omitted specific detail on the composition of BLUFOR and REDFOR because I was worried about getting bogged down in specifics. I've tried working up a couple OOBs for REDFOR and BLUFOR, but the aforementioned work has kept me from really getting to each. So let's just imagine that the CSGs for both side are bog standard: 1 CVN (Nimitz), 1 CG(Ticos), 3 DDG (Burkes, Type 45, or Horizon ), 2 FFG (FREMMS, Type 23, F-100), 2 SSNs (Virginia, Los Angeles, Rubis, or Astute). The carrier air wings are made up of a mix of Super Hornets and legacy Hornets. REDFOR has the additional task of protecting a large amphibious task force to seize Bermuda or the Azores, consisting of shipping to carry two MEU equivalents.

    A more detailed listing will come tonight. Again, sorry for my lack of follow up to your inquires. Hopefully this is enough to give some fire to the debate for now.
  5. CV12Hornet Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2013
    So, no advantage in aircraft range, and presumably equal carrier air search assets.

    As for escorts... all Eurobotes for REDFOR, I say. Call it two each of Horizons and Type 45s, plus two F-100 frigates. And for BLUFOR, swap out the frigates for two more Burkes.

    REDFOR advantages:
    Slightly better radar and MR/SR missiles on the Aster-equipped escorts
    All surface vessels except Type 45s have organic antiship missiles; if all else fails, a full-scale missile launch would hurt

    BLUFOR advantages:
    More SR missiles, better long-range missile on escorts (SM-6)
    Not required to defend an amphibious group heading for a set destination

    To be honest, that amphibious group is probably the difference in this battle; if the BLUFOR finds out where it's going, that dramatically simplifies its search compared to trying to find multiple CBGs in open ocean. It also puts them on the defensive; either they tie all three CBGs to the amphibs and so lose the initiative, or they split their force and risk defeat in detail.
  6. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

    Oct 29, 2017
    Somewhere where rockets fly.
    The Aster is "problematic".