War Plan Red

mowque

Banned
The US having a standing army of slightly over 100,000 men, a good portion in Hawaii, the Philipines and Latin America might be a small problem in such an endeavor. Along with the near total lack of modern equipment in the army, a lack of proper amounts of even obsolete equipment, Canada having hundreds of thousands of WWI veterans who just need to be handed a rifle...

Canada has all the same problems, just magnified.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Yes, like how it malfunctions all the time for some people.

Noo-ow I remember why I stop coming to this site. FULL OF UP THEIR ARSES ARMCHAIR GENERALS LIKE THIS JERK!

Now run along go tell Ian the Admin or whoever, Real happy not to come back to BS site anymore...full of pseudo intellectual shitheads with nothing better to do!

What the hell is that all about?

Somebody AGREES with you and you freak out. Don't even want to think what would have happened if he had disagreed.

Kicked for a week.
 
The US having a standing army of slightly over 100,000 men, a good portion in Hawaii, the Philipines and Latin America might be a small problem in such an endeavor. Along with the near total lack of modern equipment in the army, a lack of proper amounts of even obsolete equipment, Canada having hundreds of thousands of WWI veterans who just need to be handed a rifle...

This view always astonishes me. As if the US, in the period of prolonged poor relations with Canada and the United Kingdom, would sit idly by and maintain its minimal cadre of an Army.
 

Markus

Banned
What the hell is that all about?

Somebody AGREES with you and you freak out. Don't even want to think what would have happened if he had disagreed.



Kicked for a week.

I guess he was refering to my 1st post. it does have a no longer working link to search results for WPR.
 
Two cents

To put my two cents in. Having tried and ultimately failed (I should put emphasis on failed) two TLs in which War Plan Red is activated I have to say that it is highly unlikely the plan could have ever been sprung into action.

Though from a purely speculative POV I'd say the US would have trouble sustaining an invasion on a few grounds.

1st is that in any scenario taking Toronto and the Windsor corridor right off the bat would be tricky. Enough built up areas to grind down any advancing Blitzkrieg of tanks and the corridor itself is quite small so that would be the most hard fought area.

2nd is that neither the US or Canada had the forces on the West Coast to really make a battle out of taking Vancouver and if the Americans failed to take it Australian troops would just pour in making it harder for the US.

3rd British Empire would definitely intervene on Canada's side. The threat to the Caribbean and Latin American trade routes would be too great.

4th is definitely guerrilla warfare. In the Windsor corridor it would be more difficult (bigger concentration of US troops) but on the plains and in the Maritmes Canadian Partisans would make American soldiers lives hell. On the plains sure the Americans would rule in the cities but the rebels would stick to farms and woods. What could the US do? Bomb every cow into oblivion? In the Maritimes more access to British guns so better resistance.

Rebels might not win but they could make life hell.
 
One thing you have to remember is that these plans were not really ever intended to be put into place. They were theoretical war-plans to keep the military thinking.

I will say however, that for any chance of War-Plan Red to be enacted, you'd need the plan to be drawn up earlier, and for US-UK relations to sour considerably, causing the Government to actually invest in the plan and redeploy its military to try and enact the plan.

So, if your wanting a viable War-Plan Red, you need an early POD.

EDIT:Is there any reason why people seem to be messing up the Quote codes of late?
 
To put my two cents in. Having tried and ultimately failed (I should put emphasis on failed) two TLs in which War Plan Red is activated I have to say that it is highly unlikely the plan could have ever been sprung into action.

Though from a purely speculative POV I'd say the US would have trouble sustaining an invasion on a few grounds.

1st is that in any scenario taking Toronto and the Windsor corridor right off the bat would be tricky. Enough built up areas to grind down any advancing Blitzkrieg of tanks and the corridor itself is quite small so that would be the most hard fought area.

2nd is that neither the US or Canada had the forces on the West Coast to really make a battle out of taking Vancouver and if the Americans failed to take it Australian troops would just pour in making it harder for the US.

3rd British Empire would definitely intervene on Canada's side. The threat to the Caribbean and Latin American trade routes would be too great.

4th is definitely guerrilla warfare. In the Windsor corridor it would be more difficult (bigger concentration of US troops) but on the plains and in the Maritmes Canadian Partisans would make American soldiers lives hell. On the plains sure the Americans would rule in the cities but the rebels would stick to farms and woods. What could the US do? Bomb every cow into oblivion? In the Maritimes more access to British guns so better resistance.

Rebels might not win but they could make life hell.

1) Yes
2) No. Unless you are suggesting the Royal Navy can defeat the US Pacific Fleet in the Eastern Pacific within land-based US air AND with the Australiams traveling from one end of the Pacific (SW) to the other (NE), more than half of which is through hostile waters.
3) No. Land-based air again. At least in the Northeast Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico, and much of the Caribbean.
4) Yes, but without support from the UK major league resistance (except in the Maritimes) will be difficult to do for the Canadians, and could get very bloody for both sides.

As others have noted, in a period of increasing tensions, neither side would have the anemic forces that existed IOTL. As to Britian's greater naval strength? By the 1930's, that was mainly only in ASW, not a serious threat in terms of naval battles around North America. The US had a slight advantage in battleships (though much slower), aircraft carriers (aircraft numbers and quality, carriers quality), and heavy cruisers. Equal in destroyers and submarines (though better quality for many British subs and their torpedoes). Huge advantage for the British in light cruisers, even more so in destroyer escorts (which the USN had virtually none at the time).

And just as the USN's commitments in the Pacific (facing Japan) force a large proportion to be left there, it also makes a British campaign against the US in the Pacific/US West Coast a dead letter proposition. And British Imperial commitments in the rest of the world will not vanish overnight either.
 
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