Who would win?

  • Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians, Persians, Swedish, Bulgaria, Turkic Revolutionaries, Ethiopia

  • Russians, Serbians, Italians, Greeks, Romania


Results are only viewable after voting.
So as we know the Seminal tragedy leading up to World war I was a domino effect that would change the world. But what isn't so discussed, is how could we have an isolated conflict between only a few major powers of Europe, that goes not go global.

POD

So Franz Ferdinand is assassinated, and Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia. Then Russia declares war on Austria-Hungary. Instead, however, German foreign minister Bethmann-Hollweg interrupts Kaiser Wilhelm II on his cruise, and after many nights of debating, and discussing, Bethmann-Hollweg finally convinces Kaiser Willhelm II to not go to war against Russia, and seeing the future it would plunge Germany into. Now Germany is out of the war, so now it's Austria-Hungary vs Serbia and Russia.

Later in the War, Austria-Hungary divides its army, one to deal with Russia, and the other to deal with Serbia. Serbian resistance is difficult for Austria-Hungary to deal with. The Russians, not contempt with Germany put all forces to defeat Austria-Hungary. The Russian bear sweeps through the Austro-Hungarians. Seeing the difficulty the Habsburgs see, Austria-Hungary looks for allies. Austria-Hungary looks towards Enver Pasha and the Ottoman empire for help. The Ottomans promised there Prestige restored, and their title of the Third Rome uncontested. The Ottomans join the Austro-Hungarians in the war. The Russian Caucasus are met with the full force of the Ottoman Army. The Russians, already having moved soldiers to fight the Austro-Hungarians are Quickly pushed out of the majority of the Caucasus.

Austria-Hungary still having a difficult time with Serbia, finds a friend in Bulgaria. Bulgaria losing the Second Balkan war is promised Bulgarian majorities in Serbia. Bulgaria declares war on Serbia.

The Ottomans needing to contribute more, and to get the Russians distracted brings Ottoman troops to help stage a Turkic revolution in Russian Turkestan.

Austria-Hungary battered by Russian troops advancing wants to start a new front. Sweden who lost Prestige in its empire 200 years ago, wants to regain glory and become a European power again. So promised the reconquest of Finland, and other Russian lands, Sweden declares war on Russia.

Russia, seeing it getting outnumbered asks Romania for help in exchange for Transylvania. Romania agrees, wanting to become a regional power, and stand up to its neighbours, and wouldn't mind the collapse of the Austrians, giving it more Regional power.

Russia in anger decides to seek for anyone that could open up a second front against Austria-Hungary.......They found an ally in ITALY. Italy goes to war against Austria-Hungary with an advance into the Alps.

The Ottomans facing some defeats against the Russians in the Caucasus need help, so they look towards Persia, who in 1826 lost the Russo-Persian war, and lost all influence it could have sought in the Caucasus. So the Ottomans promise the borders before 1812 to be restored to the Persian empire if they join the war against the Russians. The Persian sick man is joining the war.

Russia getting attacked on the Balkans asks for help from the Greeks. Promising the Greeks Constantinople, the Greeks join the fray. They were sick as well, losing the Greco-Turkish war against the Ottomans.

Italy decides to distract the Ottomans forces, with an advance of Italian troops from Italian Eritrea, and Somalia, causing a slow, but the large advance from down south. The Ottomans losing many surprise battles in Yemen. The Ottomans contact the Abyssinian emperor and propose an Ottoman invested Ethiopian invasion of Italian Eritrea, and Somalia, and a Greater Ethiopian empire. Their Military had been waning, as well as power lost to colonial powers. Now it was their turn to become a regional power.



Add to what would happen, who else would join? What would happen internally? What happens outside of the war in Europe, and the world.

Double points if you find a way to get Powers like China, Japan, South American powers, Portugal, Mexico, Spain, and Ethiopia involved.
 
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Didn't the Austro-Hungarians only go through with their war declaration on Serbia after Germany informed them that they will back them in any following conflict? If Germany is neutral, Austria-Hungary won't be as aggressive and likely accept negotiations with Serbia.

I dunno how plausible this POD (Bethmann-Hollweg persuading Wilhelm away from war) is, either, when in OTL, Bethmann-Hollweg endorsed the "blank cheque" policy towards the July crisis, much like the rest of the German leadership.

There's also something else to note here that you might have completely forgotten - France and the UK. France and Russia had a military alliance since 1891, and a tightly knit one - sure, France doesn't have much business in the war at the beginning, but the knowledge that France will join on Russia's side should the need arise will probably impact Austrian and Italian choices here. The UK has even less business here than France, but at this point, as far as I'm aware, they were far more sympathetic towards the Entente rather than the Central Powers, so expect at least some British help to the Russians there.
 

Redbeard

Banned
Russia with Serbia, Italy, Greece and Romania would be nightmare for A-H - a three+ front war! Involving the Ottomans, Bulgarians, Persians and Swedes would of course divert some Russian attention, but I don't think enough. The Russians would have resources at hand to just hold the A-H allies while A-H is rolled over. Anyway, siding with the Ottomans is really bad press for A-H ambitions on the Balkans.

There might be an option though, if Germany decide to be a non-belligerent partner of A-H - the arsenal of Monarchy! A well equipped K&K Armee would be a tough nut to crack and the British and French probably wouldn't be that keen on supporting Russian ambitions about gaining access to the Med or the Middle East. But we hardly will see the Habsburg banner fly over Kremlin...
 
The Ottomans promised there Prestige restored, and their title of the Third Rome uncontested.
That was never their title. Sultan other title was: Kaiser-i-Rum, which is turkish for Caesar of Rome.
Konstantinople (not Istambul untill 1930) was a SECOND Rome, Moscow was called Third Rome, Washington Fourth...

Also, Austria would NEVER declare war on Serbia without German guaranties. France and Russia had strong alliance.
The only way something similar happens is if Austro-Hungary implodes in 1917. with Hungarians declaring indipendence, and Germany being busy anexing german parts of the Empire, while Russia seizes Western Slav lands (Galicia, Bohemia, Slovakia) and Serbia invading Bosnia.
Italy would only than tried to seize italian claims (Trentino,Trieste, Istria, Dalmatia).
 
Russia with Serbia, Italy, Greece and Romania would be nightmare for A-H - a three+ front war! Involving the Ottomans, Bulgarians, Persians and Swedes would of course divert some Russian attention, but I don't think enough. The Russians would have resources at hand to just hold the A-H allies while A-H is rolled over. Anyway, siding with the Ottomans is really bad press for A-H ambitions on the Balkans.

There might be an option though, if Germany decide to be a non-belligerent partner of A-H - the arsenal of Monarchy! A well equipped K&K Armee would be a tough nut to crack and the British and French probably wouldn't be that keen on supporting Russian ambitions about gaining access to the Med or the Middle East. But we hardly will see the Habsburg banner fly over Kremlin...

The Ottomans, Bulgarians, Persians, Swedish, and Turkics would be too much for Russia to handle at once. They'd fall to revolution a lot sooner. Russia can't handle a 5 front war like that. Austria-Hungary would be hit pretty hard, but there's Bulgaria to back them up. Romania and Greece could be easily overrun by Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary. Serbia could be a tough nut, but with enough time they could hammer it out. If Austria-Hungary focused on getting Russia out, while letting Bulgaria deal with Romania, and Greece, then they could get Russia out of the war quickly with Socialist revolution.
 
That was never their title. Sultan other title was: Kaiser-i-Rum, which is turkish for Caesar of Rome.
Konstantinople (not Istambul untill 1930) was a SECOND Rome, Moscow was called Third Rome, Washington Fourth...

Also, Austria would NEVER declare war on Serbia without German guaranties. France and Russia had strong alliance.
The only way something similar happens is if Austro-Hungary implodes in 1917. with Hungarians declaring indipendence, and Germany being busy anexing german parts of the Empire, while Russia seizes Western Slav lands (Galicia, Bohemia, Slovakia) and Serbia invading Bosnia.
Italy would only than tried to seize italian claims (Trentino,Trieste, Istria, Dalmatia).

If they were Promised by the Ottomans, I'd be enough for the time being. Austria-Hungary could then talk to the Swedes, and Bulgarians and the Ottomans could talk to the Persians.
 
Difficult to imagine Germany watching Russia mobilize for war without taking what they think of as defensive action of their own.

Difficult to imagine France watching Germany mobilize for war without taking what they think of as defensive action of their own.

One more misinterpretation, and we're back where we started.
 
The Austro-Hungarians if getting enough support from Sweden, the Ottomans, Bulgarians, and Persians, that'd make up for the absence of the Germans.
I'm sorry, but how could any of those states make up for the German industrial juggernaut right next door? Sweden has neither the manpower nor the capacity to fight the Russians, the Ottomans have no industry to speak of and would have to fight in the Caucasian mountains, where Russia can just sit and defend, Bulgaria can help in the Balkans but the are a middle power at best and cannot fight against three neighbors at once, and Persia is a minor state that could never fight the Russians on equal terms. Austria-Hungary is to fight this war practically alone and are attacked from all sides. Yeah, as ASB as it gets.
 
I'm sorry, but how could any of those states make up for the German industrial juggernaut right next door? Sweden has neither the manpower nor the capacity to fight the Russians, the Ottomans have no industry to speak of and would have to fight in the Caucasian mountains, where Russia can just sit and defend, Bulgaria can help in the Balkans but the are a middle power at best and cannot fight against three neighbors at once, and Persia is a minor state that could never fight the Russians on equal terms. Austria-Hungary is to fight this war practically alone and are attacked from all sides. Yeah, as ASB as it gets.

Then could we get the Germans to send weapons, and volunteers, and the German industry to support the Austro-Hungarians, Ottomans, Swedish, Persian etc nations?
 
Then could we get the Germans to send weapons, and volunteers, and the German industry to support the Austro-Hungarians, Ottomans, Swedish, Persian etc nations?
Not nearly enough, the Russians will just walk over the Austrians and then do whatever they want with the rest.
 
Sweden will not ally with Austria-Hungary in this era - there's a slight chance that Sweden might go to war if it is Germany, Austria-Hungary, the Ottomans and Romania against Russia. Sweden will not go to war against Russia unless they think they have a secure general European alliance against Russia and Russia can be permanently pushed back to the extent that it is not a threat to Sweden.

Sweden is far too small to fight Russia on its own and know the Russians will be back for what they lost sooner or later. Austria-Hungary and the Ottomans cannot support Sweden against Russia, while Germany can.

The Bulgarians were very pro-Russian and would not go to war against Russia, or at least not send troops to fight Russia. Serbia, yes. Romania, Greece, the Ottomans, Montenegro? All ok, as the Balkan wars showed, but not Russia.

The Ottomans and Austria-Hungary are the powers that spend the least on their armies in this era, and they are weaker for it. Neither will see the other as enough of an ally to fight Russia.

Without the German blank cheque or clear signs Russia will not go to war, Austria-Hungary will not go to war with Serbia.
 

Deleted member 1487

How is this even a question? Russia alone would ROFL stomp A-H and then the most important nation in the alliance is out for the other side. In the meantime the Russians alone could hold off all other members of the other side and then focus on knocking them out one by one.
 
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