War of 1812. The french twist

We all know the war of 1812. I would like you, the reader of this thread, to come up with a way for the war of 1812 to be against france or spain. Good luck.
 
Undeclared war

true. Technically they were at war for a while. Although it was an undeclared war.
I know. But if you listen to the media today there were no undeclared wars until the last 1/2 of the 20th century.

In any case, if we went to war with the French during the Napoleonic era does that mean that the US would be a junior ally, associated partner, or whatever you want to call it with the UK?
 
I know. But if you listen to the media today there were no undeclared wars until the last 1/2 of the 20th century.

In any case, if we went to war with the French during the Napoleonic era does that mean that the US would be a junior ally, associated partner, or whatever you want to call it with the UK?
Yes, IMO it does. I'm working on a timeline where the nation we call the USA enters the 3rd coalition on Britain's side, just one year after we purchased Louisiana from France. We are there at Trafalgar w/2 ships of the line and our 6 frigates. As we're off the neutrality fence, the war of 1812 is butterflied away.

My TL won't go in this direction, but WI Napoleon decided to invade America in 1812 instead of Russia as a payback for our betraying him after purchasing Louisiana from him.
 
My TL won't go in this direction, but WI Napoleon decided to invade America in 1812 instead of Russia as a payback for our betraying him after purchasing Louisiana from him.
The french lack any real significant forces in theater... so Nappy will need to get himself and a large army (i.e. a bloody heap of troop transports) past the RN. Given the naval situation post-Trafalgar we're talking Seelowe levels of probability.

If we assume the frogs somehow do achieve that, I'm afarid to say the yanks are in trouble: I mean it's a fairly small and inexperianced (see limited sucess when facing second line british forces under incompetants in OTL) US army against the troops that rampaged across Europe virtually unstopped until 1812 in OTL.
 
Napoleon refuses to sell Louisiana and deploys settlers and a military contingent of @25,000. Except the US allies with the UK well before 1812 in that event.
 
1795
Spain sells Hispaniola to France

1798
Haitian Revolution

1797
French/US phony war

1799
Haiti conquers entire island

1801
Jefferson becomes President

1802
French Take back Louisiana

1803
US/France Treaty, ends Phony War, Guarantee US free passage of Mississippi/New Orleans. [POD]

1804
Jefferson gets US to pass law banning Haitian Flagged Ships.

1806
Spain invades Portugal, France sends troops to help.

1807~1811
US settlers move west of Mississippi.

1808
US bans importation of Slaves.

1811
Settlers in West Florida apply and are admitted as New State
Spain declares war

1812
France joins Ally Spain, and declares war on US [Challenge]
US invades East Florida, Louisiana, Texas.

1814
US invades Cuba, Hispaniola.
Applies Ban on importation of Slaves

1815
Congress of Vienna.
US recives Florida, Lousisiana, Texas.
Cuba returned to Spain, Hispaniola returned to France.

1818
Spain defeats Mexican Rebels, begins Fortifying US/Mexican Border.

1821
Russia sells US/Britain, Its Pacific NW Claims.
US receives Claims north of 38o [San Francisco] Britain north of 48o

1848
Spanish American War.

1851
Treaty of Lisbon
Northern Border of Mexico set at 37oN, Mexico and Cuba become Independent.

1852
Northern Border of Oregon Territory set at 49oN.
 
I think america could take on spain or france. We fought britian to a standstill. So why can't we beat france?
No, second line British forces fought you to a standstill while the poms were busily dealing with one Nappy Blown-a-part over in Europe.

I mean you yanks invaded Canada but failed misrably... true, you gave one or two British expeditions a bloody nose, but that hardly counts as fighting the poms to a standstill.
 
Okay. The canadian invasion was a stupid move on our part. But I believe we were still fighting when you beat nappy-blown-apart.

I also blame the standstill on thee warhawks who got the war started without thinking to pump up the military.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Okay. The canadian invasion was a stupid move on our part. But I believe we were still fighting when you beat nappy-blown-apart.

I also blame the standstill on thee warhawks who got the war started without thinking to pump up the military.
We only won in a battle after the war had ended. Don't you think it's unfair to call that a victory? I mean, when the other said says "Alright guys, time to pack up and go home" and the other says "CHARGE!"..that isn't a victory. It's "Peace has bee made..but let's charge at these guys anyway!"
 
Something provokes the U.S. to attempt a land grab against Spain while that country is under the boot of Napoleon. As such, the OTL Mexican Cession and Florida are taken by the U.S. sooner, and the Americans manage to get a portion of the Oregon Country under definitive U.S. control sooner as well.
 
We only won in a battle after the war had ended. Don't you think it's unfair to call that a victory? I mean, when the other said says "Alright guys, time to pack up and go home" and the other says "CHARGE!"..that isn't a victory. It's "Peace has bee made..but let's charge at these guys anyway!"
We didn't know that peace had been made. Remember, slower mail.I'm not calling it a victory, I'm calling it a draw.
 
Something provokes the U.S. to attempt a land grab against Spain while that country is under the boot of Napoleon. As such, the OTL Mexican Cession and Florida are taken by the U.S. sooner, and the Americans manage to get a portion of the Oregon Country under definitive U.S. control sooner as well.
So,basically the U.S stays at its current size but gains the land sooner. Couldn't we also get a few partys of mexico that we wouldn't have gotten at the end of the spanish american(?) war.
 
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