War makes for Strange Bedfellows – A Second World War timeline

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Even if the western front gets bogged down into trenches I don't see the WAllies winning. The Axis have way more manpower, more tanks, more guns, more howitzers, more factories, more planes, more everything.
As for the Soviets, remember that the Red Army was still disorganised in OTL in summer 1941 by the Purges, and here there is no Lend-Lease and no Patriotic War
 
As for the Soviets, remember that the Red Army was still disorganised in OTL in summer 1941 by the Purges, and here there is no Lend-Lease and no Patriotic War

And now they have problem with their oil production due to the entente attack plus now the British will not look the other way when the URSS will buy rubber to later pass to the Germans. Sure this will not stop the German and Soviet war machine but it will still make them slower
 
If the Soviets choose to invade the Middle East via Iran, we can expect them to overrun the country fairly swiftly. The Soviet wing of Operation Countenance involved hastily mobilized reserve forces deployed during the depths of the Soviet struggles against the Germans in 1941 and it still crushed the Iranian forces arrayed against them with extreme rapidity.

An assault against Turkey is trickier, but if he does invade then Stalin isn’t liable to underestimate them like he did Finland, not so soon after that lesson. Given proper time to prepare, Soviet performamce would probably be more akin to the latter-half of the Winter War, which should be enough to steadily grind over the Turks.

As for the Soviets, remember that the Red Army was still disorganised in OTL in summer 1941 by the Purges, and here there is no Lend-Lease and no Patriotic War
Lack of lend-lease is vastly offset by the lack of damage inflicted upon the Soviets by no German invasion.
And now they have problem with their oil production due to the entente attack

Outside of wishful thinking, a handful of poorly concieved bombing raids upon easily repairable oil facilities isn’t going to cause substantial problems to Soviet oil production.
 
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If the Soviets choose to invade the Middle East via Iran, we can expect them to overrun the country fairly swiftly. The Soviet wing of Operation Countenance involved hastily mobilized reserve forces deployed during the depths of the Soviet struggles against the Germans in 1941 and it still crushed the Iranian forces arrayed against them with extreme rapidity.
Only this time the British force that were attacking Persia in the south will instead face the Soviet and this also mean that there were less incentive for surrender as the nation is not alone and it's not fight on two front , same for Turkey as any soviet forces will face the Anglo-French and the Soviet have not even begun to digest any lesson from the Winter War; plus the red army is not in any shape to face the commonwealth and the French in an open fight, not in 1940; if you use the 1944-45 sure probably without breaking a sweat, but the 1940? Honestly is like i try to invade ME from the caucasus with the 1940 italian army and air force...it will not end well.
Outside of wishful thinking, a handful of poorly concieved bombing raids upon easily repairable oil facilities isn’t going to cause substantial problems to Soviet oil production.
More a couple of week of raids and while it can be wishfull thinking, one can also say the same on the fact that the URSS will avoid such problems, not considering that the not stellar performance of the air force and AA will probably mean that this will be anticipated:

And this is always a very good move to resolve problem and increase morale
 
Only this time the British force that were attacking Persia in the south will instead face the Soviet
A force which doesn’t exist in mid-1940. Of the 2 divisions and 3 brigades involved in Operation Countenance, 8th Indian was only formed in October, 10th Indian was formed in January 1941, 9th Armoured Brigade was still 4th Cavalry and on garrison duty in Palestine and Trans-Jordan, the 21st Indian Brigade was still the Quetta Brigade until September 1940 and would not arrive in theater until March 1941, and the 2nd Independent Armoured Brigade was likewise forming up in India until early-1941. Anglo-French Forces east of the Suz at the time were skeleton, static garrison formations. Everything west of the Suez was focused against the Italians.
and this also mean that there were less incentive for surrender as the nation is not alone and it's not fight on two front , same for Turkey as any soviet forces will face the Anglo-French
The Iranians resisted plenty in 1941. It didn’t help them: Soviet spearheads were already south of Tehran by the time the Shah ordered his forces to cease-resistance.
and the Soviet have not even begun to digest any lesson from the Winter War;
The Soviets were digesting the lessons of the Winter War before the Winter War even ended. The difference in the performance of Red Army forces during the first and second half of the conflict is quite stark. Not to say it was brilliant, it was rather pretty middling, but that’s still a incredible step up from the utter-travesty of the first-half.
plus the red army is not in any shape to face the commonwealth and the French in an open fight, not in 1940;
If anything, the Red Army is in a lot better shape to fight the Anglo-French then they are the Finns. Any Anglo-French Force, in addition to being too pitiful numerically to seriously have any impact, are at this time wedded to a relatively immobile doctrine of static defense that lacks the dynamic counter-attacks found in the German, Finnish, or late-war Allied and Soviet systems. It boils down to a contest of numbers and material, and in such an eventuality the hundreds of thousands of soldiers, along with the associated artillery and tanks, the Soviets could potentially field against Turkey are just gonna swamp the handful of brigades that are the most the Anglo-French could hope to deploy... and that’s if they are okay with having Syria and Iraq immediately then revolt behind them.
More a couple of week of raids
In the delusions of the planners, sure. Given the actual material state of the forces involved, their endurance is liable to be a lot less especially if they are being rushed out months ahead of when the plan says they are supposed to be ready as posited in the TL
and while it can be wishfull thinking, one can also say the same on the fact that the URSS will avoid such problems,
No, it isn’t at all. Far larger raids of far greater sophistication, scale, and duration than what Pike concieved of failed to substantially disrupt the production of oil fields in any strategically meaningful fashion. To posit it would not cause the Soviets any trouble is the conclusion drawn from the actual history of strategic bombing.

Looking ahead to France: the main question is if the Soviets now being fully on their side changes German planning of the campaign. Belgian joining in ahead of time would also potentially make a difference though: many problems the French encountered were because they had to rush their army into Belgium at the same time the Germans were doing the same, a kind of mobile fight the Germans were much better at.

In the Ardennes specifically, the French rushed their light cavalry divisions forward to try and hold the forest trails, only to be driven off by the far more powerful panzer divisions. The Belgian troops also made no attempt to hold the area as they did not consider it relevant to their own plans, which were for the defense of central and northern Belgium. But had the Belgians allowed the Allies to pre-position their forces and had they been involved in Allied war planning, then the Ardennes could instead have been defended by several well entrenched French infantry divisions, which would have made it a completely different fight.
 
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Brits and French have too really high amount of resources so if things change as trench warfare it is going to be hard war for both sides. And at least Brits can produce things quiet safely and they can at least in some degree disturb German and Soviet matiral production by bombing cities and factories.
Britain and France don't have enough manpower to fight a trench war.
 
Not even if they bring ANZAC and colonial forces?
AZNAC has even less manpower then Britain or France. As for the colonies thier is only so much that they can be conscripted until thier pre-industrial system of agriculture breaks down or their is an anti-colonial rebellion. No matter what way you look at it, trench warfare is a numbers game, and Germany and the USSR just have more warm bodies then the Allies and thier is no way to change that.
 
Another thing to consider, if the French and British arm colonial troops, how long until their Empires fall? Historically, without combat experience on a large scale, both empires fell apart less than a century after WWI, but with large numbers of combat experienced colonial troops, would all vestiges of colonial empires be gone on a global scale in a single decade?

We know from history that these empires cannot last forever, and folks posting about just jamming colonial troops into the meatgrinder seem to be thinking that breaking the German Empire is so important (as opposed to any kind of peace not imposed by the Entente), that they would doom their own Empires in the immediate aftermath of WWI. We know their empires are not going to last forever, but if they go the route of arming and employing colonial troops, I cannot see those empires lasting even until WWII, or if some last remnants remain by Sep 1st, 1939, France and Britain are bankrupt and bled white by 20 years of constant warfare and suppression of the native peoples, and fall easy prey when the Nazi's come along.

Just some food for thought.
 
they can at least in some degree disturb German and Soviet matiral production by bombing cities and factories.
Only for the first few years of the war. As with real life, the Soviets will quickly learn to create very high quality interceptors and since their nuclear and jet program are ahead of reality -because they aren't throwing all available resources into fighting a total war to the death, more than because they are allied with the Germans- they will not be able to be bombed into the stone age like Germany was in reality. They probably won't have air supremacy, but they will not be getting crushed since the Urals and Siberia are still at the extreme range of late-war bombers, who also have to fly above hundreds or thousands of kilometers of Soviet territory while being detected and harassed the whole way.
 
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but they will not be getting crushed since the Urals and Siberia are still at the extreme range of late-war bombers, who also have to fly above hundreds or thousands of kilometers of Soviet territory while being detected and harassed the whole way.
Bombing the Urals from the Middle East, India, or Britain will be impossible. Bombing Siberia will be beyond impossible. Until jets are invented it is just not possible.
 
Intressting. Also an ww2 in which Hitler don't break the pact with Stalin?
A good question.
for that to work the Soviet Union would need to supply more oil and possible food than it did OTL as Germany was running out of oil in 1941 before the invasion.
 
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Bombing the Urals from the Middle East, India, or Britain will be impossible. Bombing Siberia will be beyond impossible. Until jets are invented it is just not possible.
Actually the B-24 (Later American intervention is almost inevitable if FDR is in charge) could hit Novosibirsk and closer if based in Tokyo, but again it would be flying over enemy territory thousands of miles each way. By that time in the war it wouldn't surprise me if USSR had a very formidable interceptor program and since no Barbarossa killing millions happens (not yet), there are a lot more pilots and resources to direct towards the Air Force and the Pacific fleet.
 
Because with Germany having betrayed the AntiCommunist pact already, Japan might very well side with the other side in this altWW2.
I don't see why that would happen, simply out of spite. The Japanese were racially and ideologically predisposed not to go with the Americans (Racially as in; they considered themselves above the Americans/European stock in general), and the Soviet resources of Siberia are already getting mined out and used, so Japan could definitely use some in order to help fight their war in the Pacific, if not only against the British and the south Pacific colonies.

If they went with the Americans they would get the same deal but now they have to ship these resources a great deal further and have to worry about trade interdiction a great deal more and an enemy with a massive industrial advantage very close to home and not across the world's largest ocean.
 
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