War makes for Strange Bedfellows – A Second World War timeline

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And futhermore part of British army is fighting in Sweden and occupying Norway. So BEF in France is going to be even
smaller than in OTL.

And even if France somhow manage to resist Wehrmacht better thn in OTL it is going to be really hard fight.
Actually, given that the BEF is smaller than in OTL, perhaps Gamelin will scrap the Breda variant of the Dyle Plan, or will even revert to his Escaut Plan (in which the 7th Army is in reserve)
 
Given that the Entente didn't manage to stop the German onslaught in 1940's OTL , with more Soviet support I don't see how they can ITTL....
And futhermore part of British army is fighting in Sweden and occupying Norway. So BEF in France is going to be even
smaller than in OTL.

And even if France somhow manage to resist Wehrmacht better thn in OTL it is going to be really hard fight.

The soviet armed forces at the moment are in a very dire spot thanks to Stalin, they are not the wermatch squashing mean machine that can made the world tremble of 45, no at the moment are something that made the italian army look extremely professional.
The original invasion of France it was basically Germany always roll 20 while France always 1, any change can have a lot of repercussion; hell just Belgium being a little more certain that the Nazi guarantee for neutrality is not worth the ink used and step up the war preparation can have serious repercussion or the fact that Hitler is still recovering as he give a lot of imput in the planning of the assault at Fort Eben-Emael
 
Ploeisti was bombed by hundreds of heavy b-24's with 500lb bombs, i doubt a couple hundred obsolete light and medium bombers could do much damage to Soviet oil production.
Soviets will expand their air force dramatically now, they already had hundreds of world class aircraft by 1941, only problem then was the lack of pilots and spare parts to make them operational, i expect that to change somewhat now.
 
As I recall, at that time Baku was a mess, with open pools of oil and other combustible run-off. So an out of control fire shouldnt be that hard to start.

ric350
 
There's simply no way of the Allies recovering Europe after the Fall of France aside from a German-Soviet split or mass nuclear war.

If France falls. But yeah, it is quiet likely. Invasion to Europe is definitely much more difficult. But it too depends what Italy is going to do.

And German-Soviet split is unavoidable. Probably it begins very soon after this unholy alliance has secured Europe under their thumbs and managed to make some deal with Britain.
 
Does anyone here have knowledge on the Western campaigns of May-June 1940? I'm no strategist and I really want to do this timeline justice. If anyone could help with understanding the Breda-free Dyle or Escaut Plans I would be very thankful.
 
Does anyone here have knowledge on the Western campaigns of May-June 1940? I'm no strategist and I really want to do this timeline justice. If anyone could help with understanding the Breda-free Dyle or Escaut Plans I would be very thankful.
I can provide some help, but I do think that there are many people much better qualified than me : @pdf27 @allanpcameron @jeandebueil @X Oristos @fester @ObssesedNuker @Karelian @Astrodragon @BiteNibbleChomp and others ;)
 
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If Germany is allied to the USSR then massive panic waves are unleashed. I agree with @lukedalton that it will create a different geopolitical environment. Belgium could be in Entente in Day 1 with french forces protecting the Meyse and the Albert Canal.
 
If Germany is allied to the USSR then massive panic waves are unleashed. I agree with @lukedalton that it will create a different geopolitical environment. Belgium could be in Entente in Day 1 with french forces protecting the Meyse and the Albert Canal.
On the other hand, that might draw even more Anglo-French forces into the Benelux, potentially worsening the consequences of a successful German breakthrough at Sedan, depending on how things go. On the other hand, it could make things better, but my point is that we can't really tell for sure whether it would be to Germany's advantage or disadvantage.
 
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How do you guys think the US's going to enter the war ittl? Would the USSR or Germany provoke the Americans to enter it? Or the Japanese? I think ittl the US is going to bleed a lot more if they win since they have to go through the European portion of the USSR.

I think ittl politics will be very centrist as the Western powers have never allied with any far left or right power.
 
USA is probably bit pissed arrogant behave of Britain in Scandinavia but probably decides continue supporting of Britain anyway.

Not idea how USA would join to the war. USSR probably is not stupid enough going mess with Americans. Not so sure with Germans altough Göring is smarter than Hitler but not still sure if he would decide go with unrestricted submarine war and sinking some American ships.

Not sure if Pearl Harbor would still happen. In other hand Japanese politics might change since there is different alliances. But US-Japanese relations are still bad.
 
USA is probably bit pissed arrogant behave of Britain in Scandinavia but probably decides continue supporting of Britain anyway.

Not idea how USA would join to the war. USSR probably is not stupid enough going mess with Americans. Not so sure with Germans altough Göring is smarter than Hitler but not still sure if he would decide go with unrestricted submarine war and sinking some American ships.

Not sure if Pearl Harbor would still happen. In other hand Japanese politics might change since there is different alliances. But US-Japanese relations are still bad.
I don't think Göring would want to risk going to war with the US, unlike Hitler who thought it was inevitable (and he might have been right about that).
What Japan will do is really a head scratcher, if Japan were still to join the Axis would the Soviets be able or willing to supply Japan with oil and other resources?
 
On the other hand, that might draw even more Anglo-French forces into the Benelux, potentially worsening the consequences of a successful German breakthrough at Sedan, depending on how things go. On the other hand, it could make things better, but my point is that we can't really tell for sure whether it would be to Germany's advantage or disadvantage.
With Belgium joining the Allies, the French and British would not need to rush to the Dyle River and more importantly the Breda variant would probably be scrapped. Instead you would see the Allies defending the much shorter Albert Canal with several armies in reserve, available to counter any German thrust.
 
Given that the Entente didn't manage to stop the German onslaught in 1940's OTL , with more Soviet support I don't see how they can ITTL....
Just because the Soviets are aligned with the Nazis doesn't mean one over the other is keen to see eithers troops based in their territory. The Soviets beyond some light expeditionary force probably won't play much of if any factor in The Battle for France.
 
Just because the Soviets are aligned with the Nazis doesn't mean one over the other is keen to see eithers troops based in their territory. The Soviets beyond some light expeditionary force probably won't play much of if any factor in The Battle for France.
I think Leopold III is the main factor here. As for the Soviets role, you are right but without the benefit of hindsight it's hard to guess
 
Just because the Soviets are aligned with the Nazis doesn't mean one over the other is keen to see eithers troops based in their territory. The Soviets beyond some light expeditionary force probably won't play much of if any factor in The Battle for France.

Yes but between Soviet (now a german ally) naked aggression to Finland and the situation in Sweden, the previous incident at Manchen and Turkey and Persia situation, it's clear that being neutral is not a real protection so rationally better shread it even officially
 
Even if the western front gets bogged down into trenches I don't see the WAllies winning. The Axis have way more manpower, more tanks, more guns, more howitzers, more factories, more planes, more everything.
 
Even if the western front gets bogged down into trenches I don't see the WAllies winning. The Axis have way more manpower, more tanks, more guns, more howitzers, more factories, more planes, more everything.

Brits and French have too really high amount of resources so if things change as trench warfare it is going to be hard war for both sides. And at least Brits can produce things quiet safely and they can at least in some degree disturb German and Soviet matiral production by bombing cities and factories.

And things are going to change drfamatically when and if Americans come. But even then it is going to hard to enforce Soveits to peace since they can't occupy whole Soviet Union easily.
 
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