Originally Posted by
nastle
4-Organization , chain of command, logistics will be the soviet navy downfall and that will hamper the capability of soviet navy to conduct coordinated offensive operations close to the home islands.
Not likely. Neither side will be able to maintain operations for a long period of time. It's very likely you have a Mahanian type battle with one decisive winner or they both plaster each other such that neither side can conduct large scale operations.
I don't think the sea warfare of late 80s was like a "one decisive battle scenario"
most likely it would be smaller engagements by a handful of units where surprise and long range of weapons will decide the victors and a lot of patrolling by ASW ships and airplanes on both sides.
Plus both sides may concentrate on eliminating strategic assests like ASW planes, AWACS, tankers etc
Soviets will likely have the entrances to the straits and sea of Okhotsk heavily defended by subs and ASW naval units to prevent entry of jap subs there.
Mine laying esp in the waters around the islands would be key in sea denial and mine sweeping will soak but a lot of resources of the attacking side ( in this case soviets if they choose to reclaim it )
Also the Soviets have plenty of Backfires that will be able to do a lot of damage to Japanese naval forces.
agreed Soviet ASM armed bombers will be the key antiship weapon plus cruise missile armed subs, soviet may not risk their heavier units Slava/Kirov/Kiev close to Jap fleet as there is no need to plus whatever they can do in the antiship role can be done cheaper by subs/aircraft.
The key thing here is Japan will be isolated as the US will abandon her faster than you can say Sushi. Their stock market, currency, and banks will crash taking the global economy with it. There will be heavy sanctions placed on it, if not an outright embargo. Hell, I can almost imagine the US intervening by toppling the Japanese government by use of force in this scenario.
Japan will be isolated for sure , maybe some hawks in Washington may sympathize with them though but no chance of US bailing them out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nastle
I would have liked the members here to have debated over these issues and discuss in depth more the possible scenarios of Anti-surface and ASW actions between the 2 navies
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the Soviets would seek a decisive strike against Japanese naval forces. Their naval forces had poor armor and fire suppression. It was designed for essentially a nuclear war where the first strike is the only strike and there is no point in defenses.
Which fleet are you referring to ?
If soviet they have plenty of defenses the newer ships have gatling guns and a variety of SAMs
Plus the ASW surface ships are usually given a lot of SAMs, the main weapon of Jap fleet Harpoon is subsonic and Soviets have many supersonic cruise missiles which are harder to defend against.
As such, I am guessing they break the fleet into two or three task forces for offensive operations. Maybe one in the Sea of Japan, one in the Sea of Okhost, and one in the North Pacific. The carriers will likely defend the SSBNs and conduct ASW in the Sea of Okhost.
Yes agree with ASW part, but what is the point of soviet fleet conducting offensive actions unless they go after eliminating the whole jap fleet.
They may keep their major surface units in port and their SSBN ( well out of the reach of any ASM of the jap fleet ) and let their subs, naval bombers, coastal units do the work ?
Afterall if lets say soviets are launching an amphib assault to retake the Kurils
They need to accomplish the following main tasks
1-Escort the assault force ( defend against jap DD/FF and their antiship missiles)
2-Escort their convoys to supply these forces
3-ASW in the shallow waters around the islands
4- laying defensive mine barriers
Most of these can be achieved by the smaller soviet navy units ( although losses will be high) but the jap bigger ships ( subs and destroyers ) will also be more vulnerable in these close quarters and risks of ambushes by MTB MGB missile corvettes are high.
It wouldnt surprise me if the Soviets nuked the Japanese navy, presuming it is far enough out at sea, to show their resolve. Dead fish and a sunken destroyer wont cause the same outcry as an air burst.
Indeed , most soviet missiles while not so accurate if armed with a nuke can be deadly against a destroyer size ship of group and will compensate for their lack of accuracy and if attrition from ship borne defences.
The Japanese Navy will have to simultaneously protect and support the invasion force while also defending the home islands from three different directions.
Jap multipurpose ships will help and give them more flexibility but loss of every single DD or sub will be greatly felt
If they are smart they launch a surprise attack against the Soviet navy to initiate things.
Yes ideally for them but how ? their biggest offensive weapon is harpoon and for it to be effective they need to be within 65-75 nm close to the soviet bases and launch a sufficient number of them to ensure disabling all the major surface units.That would involve atleast half their fleet of DD ( 15 ships ) and half their subs ( 6 or 7) sailing very close to vladivastock within range of Soviet SSN , diesel subs, plus naval bombers.