In a scenario where the Whites win the Civil War and establish a short-lived republic which falls to Fascism during the *Great Depression, what war aims would such a Fascist Russia have (assume for the purposes of this discussion that their borders are more or less those of the 1922 USSR) for *WW2? What countries would the Russians seek to annex into Russia and what countries would they aim to turn into puppet states? Would they have their own version of the Nazi "New Order" or the Japanese "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" and if so, what would it look like?
War Aims of a Fascist Russia
- Thread starter Whiteshore
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CaliGuy
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They would probably want our TL's borders in the West--perhaps minus East Prussia and plus Finland--and as for the south and east, it would really depend on their ideology. For instance, I could see a Russian version of Manifest Destiny demanding expansion all of the way up to the Indian Ocean. Or, alternatively, I could see Russian Fascists being more or less happy with the status quo in the south and east (though they might want to formally separate Mongolia and Xinjiang from China as well as to reacquire southern Sakhalin, if possible).
Short, ASB-ish anwser: Load up Kaiserreich on HOI4, play as Savinkovist Russia, and take the most extreme and aggressive national focuses.
Long anwser: Depending on how much of a Nazi they are and how much territory they lose in the Russian civil war. But a war with Japan is very likely which might to a sort of alliance with whatever power dominates China(and they might backstab China to claim Manchuria and Mongolia if they have their own vision of Lebensraum). Poland might also be another target. I don't think Hitler would come to power in this scenario(take out Communism and a major factor for Nazism is gone), so I think if Germany goes fascist under someone else, there might be a sort of alliance of convenience directed against the Baltic states and Poland.
Long anwser: Depending on how much of a Nazi they are and how much territory they lose in the Russian civil war. But a war with Japan is very likely which might to a sort of alliance with whatever power dominates China(and they might backstab China to claim Manchuria and Mongolia if they have their own vision of Lebensraum). Poland might also be another target. I don't think Hitler would come to power in this scenario(take out Communism and a major factor for Nazism is gone), so I think if Germany goes fascist under someone else, there might be a sort of alliance of convenience directed against the Baltic states and Poland.
Well, I was thinking they'd be akin to a right-wing version of Stalinist Russia.
Also, I could see Fascist Russia being supportive of Indian nationalism (of the right-wing, Hindu nationalist flavor).
Going off the slights and defeats perceived in the 19th and early 20th century: I would see Japan as a clear source of frustration and anger in the East, given the Russo-Japanese War. In Central Asia, perhaps a rerun of Afghanistan, as it was the site of the Great Game between Russia and Britain. In Europe, the Slavic nations and Scandinavia. Perhaps the Balkans and the Near East. Beyond that, given Fascism is anything but limited in its aims and not sane: Alaska in North America, and the threat of expansion in Asia. If it got especially lacking in sanity, as fascism is prone to do, it could seek expansion into Africa. Heck, even South America. Russia is the largest nation in the world, positioned within but alienated from the spheres of both Europe and Asia, in a place to seek land anywhere and everywhere. And there is a lot that Russia tried for but failed to get. Again, I reference Scandinavia and Manchuria. So Russia is truly a nation that could madly seek to conquer the world if it turns as wicked as fascism, and in a position to go far with that goal.
That is until it smacks into the British Empire, France, and the United States, the Japanese, and the other more minor powers it could go to war with. Minor nations could be ground under, bloodily. World Powers are a harder venture, and it would be another World War. It is also a matter of development and industry. On paper, Russia is in a stronger position than the Axis Powers of the OTL. In practice, barring industrialization, it is an underdeveloped power with far more potential than Germany, but which is not utilizing its potential (to evil ends) as Germany did. If Adolf can build only 20 factories and built 15, and Joey could build a 100 factories but only built 12, Adolf is in a better position than Joey.
That is until it smacks into the British Empire, France, and the United States, the Japanese, and the other more minor powers it could go to war with. Minor nations could be ground under, bloodily. World Powers are a harder venture, and it would be another World War. It is also a matter of development and industry. On paper, Russia is in a stronger position than the Axis Powers of the OTL. In practice, barring industrialization, it is an underdeveloped power with far more potential than Germany, but which is not utilizing its potential (to evil ends) as Germany did. If Adolf can build only 20 factories and built 15, and Joey could build a 100 factories but only built 12, Adolf is in a better position than Joey.
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Don't forget supporting Indian nationalist movements (to weaken Britain).
They'll be busy at home considering the fact that almost half of population of Russia is non-Russian, and less expansionist because Russian nationalism, unlike communism is not something that could be exported to other nations.
I doubt you would see Fascism per se of the NAZI German variety. More like Italian fascism crossed with royal authoritarian dictatorship of the Balkan variety (Yugoslavia, Bulgaria or Romania or Poland for that matter. Take your pick).
Foreign policy is probably centred on re-establishing the Imperial borders and its traditional sphere of influence among the eastern slab states, perhaps Greece.
In terms of subterfuge, spying, and underhanded tactics, Russia would be in position to wreck havoc anywhere in the Old World. And it can project that power into the Americas, exactly as the Soviet Union did. This is cutting out the fat of the narrative of world history and letting Russia take on the role of Germany and the Soviet Union in one giant evil character.
Huh, the Whites win and - establish a republic? Weren't they Czarists? Note, you can have a Fascist monarchy, look at the first and original Fascist regime.
Let's say the White leaders can't agree on who becomes Tsar (because the Bolshies killed the old Tsar and his kids).
Some Whites were monarchists but most were not. Only thing various White fractions had in common was the fact that they fought Bolsheviks, otherwise they were very heterogenous group, from monarchists to moderate socialists. And the fact that Tsar with family was murdered makes return of monarchy even less likely. Military junta is more plausible.
The Whites were anyone who was not a Marxists, nor Anarchist. And that disorganization and conflicting political efforts is why they lost.
A Fascist Czarist Russia (I don't buy the Whites don't find some distant relative to place on the throne as a figurehead - it's entirely part of their mystique, they can't do without him) would of course first try to reacquire its widest-reaching historical borders. It would have somewhat credible claims on Finland, the Baltic states, a good slice of Poland, a sizable slice of Romania, the territories it lost to Japan, and presumably Mongolia and a bit more from China.
All the above has been mentioned by someone upthread, but nobody has mentioned Turkey. There are border regions in the Caucasus where a Fascist Russia might put forth claims on.
All of these neighboring countries fear Russia, and all of them save Japan are weaker, some terribly so. They will look for patrons. Russia will have to find allies, and not to step on their toes. I.e., Russia might still reanimate the WWI and older alliance with France, but then it's easier to be hostile to Latvia, a new country with no friends, than to Poland, who is an ally of France.
All the above has been mentioned by someone upthread, but nobody has mentioned Turkey. There are border regions in the Caucasus where a Fascist Russia might put forth claims on.
All of these neighboring countries fear Russia, and all of them save Japan are weaker, some terribly so. They will look for patrons. Russia will have to find allies, and not to step on their toes. I.e., Russia might still reanimate the WWI and older alliance with France, but then it's easier to be hostile to Latvia, a new country with no friends, than to Poland, who is an ally of France.
White Russia would need more time to stabilise after Civil War, and more time to rebuilt military forces.
