Wank the Kievan Rus

So the foundational state of Russia the Kievan Rus had some tough times with mongol invasions, and other problems.

How do we make Kiev circa 1100 AD a major if not dominant power in eastern Europe.
 
Kievan Rus' already had problems before Mongols, namely beling split between several principalties as Novgorod, Galich, etc.
Mongol invasion more or less parachieved its decline, which was due to inner instability, loss of geostrategical relevance with the decline of Byzantium, and rise of Lithuania.

I'm not sure how to get rid of this instability, whom Russians wee concious when they tried to amend the lineray dynastic succession (the technical overlordship going to dynastic elder), as the problem was eventually less the succession than the plethora of various principalties and autonomous entities. Maybe that we could have an earlier unification around 2 or 3 principalties out of the ensemble, one of them centered about Kiev.

Altough, maybe, the date of 1100 AD is a bit too early to have this or any kind of reunification.
 
Maybe an earlier united Russia could result in a russo-wank.
Have Mstislav of Kiev beat the mongols at the Battle of Kalka River (1223). While this probably does keep the mongols out of Russia, it doesn't destroy the mongol empire -- as mongol-tatar raids continue, the peripheral princes of Russia choose to pledge allegiance to Kiev for protection, up until they are eventually absorbed into Kiev proper once the mongols decline.
 
I have a wanked Rus in my Vinland timeline(shameless self advertising) though my creative mind is beginning to think their days are numbered,

But how I did it was

1. nerf Lithuania, this happened due to some stuff in Scandinavia

2. Not nerf Byzantium, not necessarily a Wank but the whole Normans in Italy thing never really got off to a good start.

3. Richer Scandinavia, Rus became rich by acting as the trade intermediary between Byzantium/Mediterranean and Northern Europe/Baltic and as a result the Rus have higher Norse influence in their society.

4. Wars with the Cumans early on will give them insight into fighting Steppe armies
 
I have a wanked Rus in my Vinland timeline(shameless self advertising) though my creative mind is beginning to think their days are numbered,

But how I did it was

1. nerf Lithuania, this happened due to some stuff in Scandinavia

2. Not nerf Byzantium, not necessarily a Wank but the whole Normans in Italy thing never really got off to a good start.

3. Richer Scandinavia, Rus became rich by acting as the trade intermediary between Byzantium/Mediterranean and Northern Europe/Baltic and as a result, the Rus have higher Norse influence in their society.

4. Wars with the Cumans early on will give them insight into fighting Steppe armies

No offense, I think that handwaves away the real reason why the Kievan Rus fell, it wasn't a state in itself but more of a confederation of principalities. Lithuania only managed to conquer various part of the Rus after the "state" basically broke down, while Byzantium holding Sicily or more Norse influence however that works considering the Rus princes were Norse in origin, don't do anything either. Fighting the Cumans doesn't matter much because the Rus fell because they were divided.

To wank the Kievan Rus you would need a combination of some form of centralization where each prince isn't fighting for Kiev, and possibly something better than the Rota System, but also realize that Kiev was on the decline in part because of the wars for it, but Novgorod and Vladimir were on the rise. This is why I'd say your are more right then you may realize with the second part of your statement.
 
Kyivan Rus' was not the foundational state of Russia. That is a common misconception. The Kyivan Rus' was based in Kyiv and was centered around Kyiv in Northern and central Ukraine. The majority of Kyivan religious centers, some 70%, were located in modern day Ukraine, the capital, obviously, is Kyiv, not to mention the fact that the Grand Duchy of Moscow didn't exist until after the fall of the Kyivan Rus', and the Muscovy is the foundational state of Russia. The Kyivan laws and culture actually were inherited first by a number of successor Kingdoms such as Galicia-Volhynia, again, not Muscovy.

Frankly I think one simple way to wank the Kyivan Rus' is have Sviatoslav listen to Sveneld and use a different route to Kyiv and thus prevent his ambush and subsequent death by the pechenegs. This allows him to consolidate his newly conquered territories.
 
Frankly I think one simple way to wank the Kyivan Rus' is have Sviatoslav listen to Sveneld and use a different route to Kyiv and thus prevent his ambush and subsequent death by the pechenegs. This allows him to consolidate his newly conquered territories.
I did a thread on that PoD long ago.
How stable was Sviatoslav's reign? I heard he was a bit mad, considering that he briefly moved the capital of Russia from Kiev to some random town in Romania.
Could he convert to christianity?
EDIT: apparently, the Battle of Arcadiopolis is a good starting point for Sviatoslav to maintain his balkan conquests.
 
I did a thread on that PoD long ago.
How stable was Sviatoslav's reign? I heard he was a bit mad, considering that he briefly moved the capital of Russia from Kiev to some random town in Romania.
Could he convert to christianity?
EDIT: apparently, the Battle of Arcadiopolis is a good starting point for Sviatoslav to maintain his balkan conquests.

*The capital of the Kyivan Rus' not "Russia".

He moved it to a small city because it was closer to his new Balkan conquests and because it was on the intersection of all trade throughout the Kyivan Rus', or at least a good portion of it. It was only there briefly before it wound up back in Kyiv. Svyatoslav himself wasn't crazy or anything like that. He was an incredible general and a great warrior. Unforetunatly much like Alexander he would die to young to really consolidate his holdings. Of course after a brief fratricidal war most of his important possessions would remain under the control of Kyiv once again.

He probably could, but I don't see it. He said his Druzhina would never respect him if he abandoned the old gods. He certainly respected the rights of Christians and likely Jews as well in the Kyivan Rus' despite him being a pagan. Even members of his family would be Christians during and after his lifetime. He would likely not convert, but I believe the Rus' would be Christian within a few decades of his death as it was IOTL.

Christian or not he might decide to reinvade the Byzantine Empire again, after all they certainly believed that to be the case because they had him killed. This second time he just might succeed in the Balkans.
 
I think that handwaves away the real reason why the Kievan Rus fell, it wasn't a state in itself but more of a confederation of principalities.
Yes, it was close to "a confederation of principalities". Very close.
For a foreign reader (predominantly 'western') a few comparisons might be made to better understand that system. (*And ye, before you say so, all the comparisons are faulty by definition.)

But anyway:
Kievan Rus was like the HRE, but...
1) of course smaller and less populous, that's obvious
2) was (almost) homogeneous 'ethnically' - predominantly Slavic, speaking (almost) the same language and sharing (almost) the the same culture
3) all the princes (petty, middle and great ones) were exclusively from one bloodline only - the Ryurikids. As the Ryurikids saw it - Kievan Rus was their mutual family property/possession; and the population somehow shared this point of view, that was a widely excepted conception.
4) with every passing year Kievan Rus felt it's religious 'particularity', especially with Byzantine waning away. (Orthodox Christian) religion was something which started to differ Kievan Rus from all other countries, 'us against everybody else' feeling, sort of.

My point here is that in some aspects (Kievan) Rus was as cohesive as HRE, and when felt threatened was able to field 'confederation' armies big enough.

- Could this 'confederation' be wanked? I am afraid no, except for some period of time to be united by a strong charismatic Ryurikid, and then after his death immediately coming back to it's 'normal' confederation condition.
- Could this 'confederation' survive for a long time? With the Mongols butterflied away - most probably yes, as it had the most resistant sense of unity, the same self-identity (even in OTL, being conquered by different foreign powers).

The actual wanking might happen somewhere in the XV-XVIIth centuries, but that would be a totally different story, and even if the name (Kievan) 'Rus' had been preserved the entity would have been a different beast(s) entirely.
 
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EDIT: apparently, the Battle of Arcadiopolis is a good starting point for Svyatoslav to maintain his balkan conquests.

The Battle of Arcadiopolis was lost when the Byzantines ambushed the Pecheneg contingent and they routed, after that, the Bulgarians panicked. According to Leo the Deacon the battle turned to the outnumbered Byzantines when the Pecheneg commander was killed by Bardas Skleros, the Byzantine commander, when the Pecheneg was trying to rally his men, this is supposed to be what turned the panic into a rout, however, earlier in the battle, also according to Leo, a Pecheneg struck Skleros on the helmet but his blow was deflected. Perhaps we can change that. Skleros is slain at this critical juncture in the battle, the Byzantines who have been feigning retreat begin to falter. The Bulgarians move up to support the cut off Pechenegs and the Byzantines begin to retreat. At this point Svyatoslav's main Kyivan force arrives and delivers a knock out blow routing the Byzantines (IOTL Pechenegs were wiped out and the Bulgarians panicked and retreated forcing Svyatoslav to concede the field and withdraw north). This changes things dramatically. Svyatoslav is known to have remarked to Emperor John Tzimiskis that he should withdraw to Anatolia and leave the Byzantine European possessions to Svyatoslav. I doubt he could conquer all that, but it is worth noting. Having defeated this Byzantine Army there is nothing between him and Constantinople.
 
Anyone know when buckwheat became a major crop in Rus lands?
I do love buckwheat porridge, so delicious.

From all I know it was never the major crop. It was one of the major crops. But I guess you meant exactly that.

And answering your question:
- I am not sure but somewhere from the XV-XVII centuries.
Start of a wider spread coincided with the Mongol yoke, but the archaeologists found buckwheat in Rus two hundred years before the Mongol invasion.
 
Yes, it was close to "a confederation of principalities". Very close.
For a foreign reader (predominantly 'western') a few comparisons might be made to better understand that system. (*And ye, before you say so, all the comparisons are faulty by definition.)

But anyway:
Kievan Rus was like the HRE, but...
1) of course smaller and less populous, that's obvious
2) was (almost) homogeneous 'ethnically' - predominantly Slavic, speaking (almost) the same language and sharing (almost) the the same culture
3) all the princes (petty, middle and great ones) were exclusively from one bloodline only - the Ryurikids. As the Ryurikids saw it - Kievan Rus was their mutual family property/possession; and the population somehow shared this point of view, that was a widely excepted conception.
4) with every passing year Kievan Rus felt it's religious 'particularity', especially with Byzantine waning away. (Orthodox Christian) religion was something which started to differ Kievan Rus from all other countries, 'us against everybody else' feeling, sort of.

My point here is that in some aspects (Kievan) Rus was as cohesive as HRE, and when felt threatened was able to field 'confederation' armies big enough.

- Could this 'confederation' be wanked? I am afraid no, except for some period of time to be united by a strong charismatic Ryurikid, and then after his death immediately coming back to it's 'normal' confederation condition.
- Could this 'confederation' survive for a long time? With the Mongols butterflied away - most probably yes, as it had the most resistant sense of unity, the same self-identity (even in OTL, being conquered by different foreign powers).

The actual wanking might happen somewhere in the XV-XVIIth centuries, but that would be a totally different story, and even if the name (Kievan) 'Rus' had been preserved the entity would have been a different beast(s) entirely.
While I find your comparison rather apt and agree to almost all your points, I beg to differ with regards to (2).
In some elements of the Kievan Rus, Slavic-speaking groups were clearly a minority, e.g. in Novgorod. In the East, substantial Uralic-speaking minorities surely must have existed in the 10th-13th centuries (there are still some left today even though their speakers never had any advantages from it), while on the Southern steppe fringe, nomadic groups must have made up substantial portions of the population.
Overall, there will have been a majority of speakers of Slavic varieties.
But that situation is not so different from the HRE, with its Italian fringe in the South, the French fringe in the West, and the Slavic fringe in the East, with German being the language of a clear majority.
 
Overall, there will have been a majority of speakers of Slavic varieties.
But that situation is not so different from the HRE, with its Italian fringe in the South, the French fringe in the West, and the Slavic fringe in the East, with German being the language of a clear majority.
That was my point actually.
In some elements of the Kievan Rus, Slavic-speaking groups were clearly a minority, e.g. in Novgorod. In the East, substantial Uralic-speaking minorities surely must have existed in the 10th-13th centuries
If the Slavic groups were minority they were a ruling minority.
 
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