Wank the Flemish

There hasn't been a good wank around here for awhile. This one is on the Flemish. Keep in mind that part of Flanders wound up in France. Try to make the Flemish at least as successful as the Dutch.
 
There hasn't been a good wank around here for awhile. This one is on the Flemish. Keep in mind that part of Flanders wound up in France. Try to make the Flemish at least as successful as the Dutch.

In 1356 Margaret, the only daughter of Louis II, the Count of Flanders (also Count of Nevers, and Rethel, lord of Mechelen and Antwerp) died. This is necessary to avoid the OTL Burgundian marriage.

In 1382, Louis II, after being defeated in the Battle of Beverhoutsveld by the Ghent rebels, cedes control over the county (which he lost, anyway) to the French crown for the payment of 200,000 livre tournois. Don't feel sorry for him: in 1384, after death of his mother, he'll get the County of Artois and the Imperial Free County of Burgundy (Franche-Comté).

In 1382 the Flemish army (mostly from the rebellious Ghent) is whipped out at Rosebeke by the French, led by King Charles VI and their leader, Philip van Artevelde is slain. The county goes under the direct jurisdiction of the kings of France and never becomes a part of the "Valois Burgundy" and then Hapsburg empire. As a result, in the XVI century it is not a part of the territories devastated by the 80 Years War (OTOH, it suffers from the French Wars of the Religion) and keeps prospering as one of the most developed parts of France. Not sure that a direct comparison with the Dutch will work: success of the Flanders was not based upon the maritime trade.
 
There hasn't been a good wank around here for awhile. This one is on the Flemish. Keep in mind that part of Flanders wound up in France. Try to make the Flemish at least as successful as the Dutch.
It depends on what you mean with succesful. If you want a country that is as rich or influential as the current Netherlands, you are basicly looking at OTL (although you could make them independent from Wallonia, I guess). If you want them to have a large colonial empire and a place in world history? Then it depends on who you mean with the Flemish. Just the county of Flanders? That would be impossible, too small. If you mean the area that is now considered Flanders (basicly the Dutch speaking part of Belgium), that would be historically unlikely (for example why exclude Wallonia, or the northern part of the duchy of Brabant). If you do not mind expanding Flanders somehow, at which point is it still Flanders. We could simply call Belgium Flanders (Belgium was/is pretty succesful after all), but I am sure that was not what you meant by your POD. We could add various parts of the Netherlands to it (Zeeland, Brabant, Liburtg, etc), but at some point it becomes more or less a different form of the Netherlands than a Flanders.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
Well one could also wank the initial rebellion against the Spanish Crown at the start of the 80-years War. That keeps Flanders Protestant and the centre of the rebellion.
 
I mean a Flemish country, with no elites speaking other languages involved, incorporating all the places where Flemish has ever been spoken, and as wealthy as the area is currently, with either the largest city in Europe and/ or having had a colonial empire at least as impressive as the Dutch empire. Bonus points if Flemish is a major language in at least one non-European country.
 
I mean a Flemish country, with no elites speaking other languages involved, incorporating all the places where Flemish has ever been spoken, and as wealthy as the area is currently, with either the largest city in Europe and/ or having had a colonial empire at least as impressive as the Dutch empire. Bonus points if Flemish is a major language in at least one non-European country.
By definition that would only include Flanders since Flemish is the Low Franconian dialect spoken in Flanders, Dutch being the more general term for the common dialects.
I presume what you want is a Dutch country centred on Flanders politically.
 
"I presume what you want is a Dutch country centred on Flanders politically."

Correct, and there can be minorities speaking other languages as long as the Flemish are clearly in charge.
 
Correct, and there can be minorities speaking other languages as long as the Flemish are clearly in charge.
Who are the Flemish exactly? The people living in the former county of Flanders or the region that is now considered Flanders? The first one is in my opinion too small. It is like asking Luxembourg to become a major power. The last part is problematic since it would create an anachronism. That area only became its own entity with its own identity when Belgium was formed.
 
Who are the Flemish exactly? The people living in the former county of Flanders or the region that is now considered Flanders? The first one is in my opinion too small. It is like asking Luxembourg to become a major power. The last part is problematic since it would create an anachronism. That area only became its own entity with its own identity when Belgium was formed.
Well if you expand Flanders early on you could just have the areas they conquer in the Netherlands identify as Flemish long-term as well.
 
Top