Wages & Unions without large post-1960 Immigration

So what would wages and unions in western countries be like without the large scale immigration after 1960s.
What would the living standards be like? Japan has good living standards, but has a declining birth rate.

What would be the presence of unions in new industries like Tech?

Edit: My eyesight is declining and didn't notice this was in before 1900, so mods could you move this to after 1900.
 
The argument for higher wages is pretty obvious. Pure supply and demand. How would that affect unions though? A lack of declining levels of social trust or something?
 
It'd help wages and work conditions for sure, but you'd still see an uptick in inequality because of the GI to gen Xer generations that believe Experts/the teevee so you'd still have the same people believing economists on things like trade/globalization.

Granted, things wouldn't get as bad as OTL since the modern conservative movement wouldn't be able to sell arguments against social programs as effectively without immigration to make the electorate more skeptical of them.
 
It'd help wages and work conditions for sure, but you'd still see an uptick in inequality because of the GI to gen Xer generations that believe Experts/the teevee so you'd still have the same people believing economists on things like trade/globalization.

Granted, things wouldn't get as bad as OTL since the modern conservative movement wouldn't be able to sell arguments against social programs as effectively without immigration to make the electorate more skeptical of them.
So could the US become a welfare state on par with Northwestern Europe?

The argument for higher wages is pretty obvious. Pure supply and demand. How would that affect unions though? A lack of declining levels of social trust or something?
My understanding is that Unions get broken up with Immigration, I think this because I have heard that in the late 19th/ early 20th Century immigration was used to break up strikes, as there would be workers willing to work for what they are getting paid, but wouldn't join Unions considering the opportunity was too important for them, and the populations were separated by linguistic, cultural, religious and ethnic lines.
 
The argument for higher wages is pretty obvious. Pure supply and demand. How would that affect unions though? A lack of declining levels of social trust or something?
US Meatpacking Unions were destroyed in the Midwest in the 1980s once an endless supply of immigrant workers, both legal and otherwise, could be brought in to work the line.

Before that, Meatcutters made enough to put their kids thru college and a new car every other year, with full pension, weeks of vacation and healthcare

After that, it was just above minimum wage.
 
I’m not sure a wage increase actually makes sense in the long-run, because A) without large scale immigration western economic growth wouldn’t be sustained and B) without large scale immigration off-shoring and union-busting would probably take place earlier.
 
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So could the US become a welfare state on par with Northwestern Europe?


My understanding is that Unions get broken up with Immigration, I think this because I have heard that in the late 19th/ early 20th Century immigration was used to break up strikes, as there would be workers willing to work for what they are getting paid, but wouldn't join Unions considering the opportunity was too important for them, and the populations were separated by linguistic, cultural, religious and ethnic lines.
Probably not. We'd definitely get national healthcare by the mid 70s given how close we came in the 60s and 70s OTL for sure. So national healthcare is a definite. No idea on other stuff.
 
I’m not sure a wage increase actually makes sense in the long-run, because A) without large scale immigration western economic growth wouldn’t be sustained and B) without large scale immigration off-shoring and union-busting would probably take place earlier.
As for the large scale economic growth, well in otl only the rich have benefited from that, however the cost of the immigration was stagnating and lowered wages. Jobs going overseas is a could happen.
 
Australian mass migration began in 1945.
Australian union density collapsed from 1990.

For that matter there were multiple non-Union underclasses in the US during peak “Fordism.”

The collapse of the Fordist compromise wasn’t due to migration.

This thread will be continuously dangerously close to current politics. “The Accord” is current politics in Australia if you run into a friendly jordies grade Labor Party hack.
 
Probably not. We'd definitely get national healthcare by the mid 70s given how close we came in the 60s and 70s OTL for sure. So national healthcare is a definite. No idea on other stuff.
Could US states become more welfare oriented? Because I have heard that New England tends to have good social safety nets.

Off-shoring happened anyway
Well if Unions maintain their strength, because of no large scale immigration, doesn't that mean Unions will keep or grow their political power, making it electorally unfeasible for politicians to allow offshoring.

Australian mass migration began in 1945.
Australian union density collapsed from 1990.

For that matter there were multiple non-Union underclasses in the US during peak “Fordism.”

The collapse of the Fordist compromise wasn’t due to migration.

This thread will be continuously dangerously close to current politics. “The Accord” is current politics in Australia if you run into a friendly jordies grade Labor Party hack.
Unions don't get broken up just "large scale migration", though that is a factor, it is generally a divide between the workers, economic background, linguistic, cultural, religious and ethnic lines that makes Union cohesion more difficult.

I am not knowledgeable about current Australian politics, and this thread is generally 20th Century focused.
 
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Unions don't get broken up just "large scale migration", though that is a factor, it is generally a divide between the workers, economic background, linguistic, cultural, religious and ethnic lines that makes Union cohesion more difficult.
Cesar Chavez was against illegal immigration, as it hurt his ability to organize workers

Unions had the best time in the USA, 1924 to 1965, when immigration was curtailed, and no easy access to new workers with little connection to the community who were easily turned to scab labor

Increase the numbers of potential workers, that weakens organized labor being able to deal with management
 
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