W/I Croatiawank

Hi all,

Just throwing this out there, I know it's a longshot but what if the Independent State of Croatia survived WWII by convincing the British they were a useful anticommunist ally and never having declared war on the Western allies in 1941?

+100 points for any other POD that would have the NDH survive with the Ustasa in power until at least 1989.

+1000 points for any way to keep the NDH as nightmarish as it had been during WWII and remain on cordial terms with the west.
 
An alliance with Franco's Spain, Salazar's Portugal and a buisness like cooperation with the Kingdom of Greece could definately be on the cards (though Athens and Zagreb would have to keep their relationship secret as the Greek people would not be pleased with Croatia's stance on the Serbs)
 
A Ustashe-led NDH wouldn't have a chance...too much "inconvenient genocidal maniacs" and not enough "useful anticommunist ally".

If NDH was given to the Croatian Peasant Party to govern instead of the Ustashe (like some among the Axis originally planned in 1941), it would have a chance to appeal to the Western allies like you described. A very small chance, but not completely impossible. Of course that would be a far less brutal regime than OTL's, so it doesn't win any bonus points.
 
Long ago i had this idea of some croatian general amasing enough influence to launch a late-war coup against the ustashe while the germans were to distracted to react.

Such a figure could purge the nation of all uncomfortable axis elements and maybe even reach some kind of truce with the partisans,provided they do a good enough job i could see the allies recognising them in a similair way they recognised the italians.

Very far fetched to be sure but there is a small window in the late-war chaos to pull it off.
 
What if there's an incident with the USSR like an armed clash between them and the USA in Germany that would make the allies far more hostile to the USSR and the Partizans and would make them more inclined to deal with the enemies of their enemies?

or

Tomislav II survives as King until 1945 and manages to oust Pavelic and the more extreme members of the Ustasa but the regime in some watered down form survives?

or

a combination of the two?
 
No chance,crushing the axis was number 1 priority,any croatian faction would have to somehow distance itself from them.

Either an army coup kills all involved or a pre-war faction takes power,either way they would still have to convince the allies,resist german counter attacks and reach a compromise with the partisans.
 
No chance,crushing the axis was number 1 priority,any croatian faction would have to somehow distance itself from them.

Either an army coup kills all involved or a pre-war faction takes power,either way they would still have to convince the allies,resist german counter attacks and reach a compromise with the partisans.

Supposing the Croatians did not declare war on the western allies, and the USSR (if needs be) but fought the partizans and committed troops to the Eastern Front (like Bulgaria did without declaring war) then the Croats could try and distance themselves from the Axis, especially after 1944 when the Germans fled the Balkans.
 
If they do manage to survive with the Ustashi at the helm, then a continuing war against the partizans could see Croatia become a European South Africa or South Vietnam in the American's Cold War network.
 
The allies really didnt care if they declared war or not,not a single member of the axis got preferential treatment,spain only made it out because it was never in the war.

Croatian declaration of war or not allied planes will still be crashing from the skies of croatia.

The british wont be any nicer since they see the croats as insurectionists that helped destroy their ally yugoslavia,whose royal family is still in britain.

As for the soviets fighting the partisans its not going to happen,stalin had enough nations to deal with and he had agreed with churchill to keep influence in yugoslavia moderate.

All of this is further complicated by pavelicis refusal to change sides believing in hitlers wonder plans.

Getting rid of the ustasa in a bloody coup and fighting off german divisions is probably the only way to convince the allies.

The coup is neccessary also because of the partisans,by the end of the war they numbered around 800k,if the leadership doesnt change they will just keep advancing and croatia doesnt have enough amunition or bodies to hold them back.

A coup would probably convince a lot of croatian partisans to give up the fight and join up with the new government.
 
Okay, how about this,..

  • Tomislav II tries to create his own powerbase amongst Croat generals were aren't Ustasi.
  • Playing Hitler against Mussolini, Tomislav II and the Croatian government don't lose as much of Dalmatia as they did in OTL and therefore have more popular support amongst Croatian peasants.
  • Partizans do not do as well in Croatia due to a more competent army and more popular support.
  • Tomislav II remains in Croatia after Italy's surrender 1943.
  • When the Germans leave the Balkans in 1944, Tomislav and the conservatives purge the Pavelicis and leave a gutted Ustasa who are puppets of the King.
  • In the same way that the Allies were lenient with the Italians because they "repented" and ousted the fascists themselves Tomislav II connives to join the allies like Italy and Romania would in OTL.
  • Having forged a tenuous cease fire with the partizans analogous to the truce between the Maoists and the KMT of OTL China Tomislav II brings Croatia into the alliance in 1945 after the failure of the German Budapest offensive.
  • Eventually fighting between the King and the partizans will flare up again by 1947 with the Allies backing Croatia.
 
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That could work,except tomislav II didnt have any interest or desire to rule croatia,he never even visited it.

Its a good timeline if you change his personality.
 
That could work,except tomislav II didnt have any interest or desire to rule croatia,he never even visited it.

Its a good timeline if you change his personality.


Here's an interesting article on Tomislav II:

http://madmonarchist.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/monarch-profile-king-tomislav-ii-of.html

And to get myself 1000 pts let's have Croatia remain in a Vietnam style war against the Chetniks and Partizan remnant forces (backed by a communist Serbia) becoming repressive again after the fifties as it becomes like Cold War South Africa, South Vietnam, Taiwan, South Korea, Greece, Turkey or Iran. Maintaining ties with Spain and Portugal.
 
And with the fall of communism the gutted, puppetised Ustasa that remained in power via Croatia's limited parliamentary monarchy in the same way Putin wins elections (by having the opposition too divided to be a truly 2 party system) looses elections in 1990 to a Croatian Peasant Party, beginning a liberalisation of the country as the repressive, conservative order had outlived it's usefulness to the west.
 
Supposing the Croatians did not declare war on the western allies, and the USSR (if needs be) but fought the partizans and committed troops to the Eastern Front (like Bulgaria did without declaring war) then the Croats could try and distance themselves from the Axis, especially after 1944 when the Germans fled the Balkans.
Bulgaria most certainly did no such thing. There were no Bulgarian units fighting in the Soviet Union, either at the front or at the rear.
 
Bulgaria most certainly did no such thing. There were no Bulgarian units fighting in the Soviet Union, either at the front or at the rear.

True. It was politically impossible. In fact, if the Bulgarians didn't get free clay in Greece for joining the Axis, they probably would have seen a Yugoslavia-style coup. They were extremely Russophile.

Besides, the Croatian legion did fight on the Eastern Front. Reading about their exploits are kind of sad, to be honest. A lot of the legionnaires seem to have been rather brave and honourable men that despised the regime they represented and took massive casualties because the Germans put them in bad situations because of their competence.

There's one anecdote about them seizing the T-shaped building in Stalingrad, handing it over to the Germans and then the Germans immediately lost it to the Soviets and the Croats had to capture it again.
 
Bulgaria most certainly did no such thing. There were no Bulgarian units fighting in the Soviet Union, either at the front or at the rear.

They were still fighting Soviets, the Bulgarian leadership just didn't trust their men to fight the Soviets in the front line due to the aforementioned Russophilia.
 
They were still fighting Soviets, the Bulgarian leadership just didn't trust their men to fight the Soviets in the front line due to the aforementioned Russophilia.

Actually the Kingdom of Bulgaria never declared war on the Soviet Union. They didn't engage in any action that directly harmed the Soviets. Although the Soviets made sure the Bulgarians knew that wasn't how they saw it, which is why the Bulgarians switched sides as soon as the Soviet army in Romania got near the Romania-Bulgaria border.
 
Actually the Kingdom of Bulgaria never declared war on the Soviet Union. They didn't engage in any action that directly harmed the Soviets. Although the Soviets made sure the Bulgarians knew that wasn't how they saw it, which is why the Bulgarians switched sides as soon as the Soviet army in Romania got near the Romania-Bulgaria border.

That's right, Bulgaria had never declared war, though this was partially at Germany's bidding as the Germans sought to use Bulgaria as a back channel diplomatic channel to the Kremlin.
 
They were still fighting Soviets, the Bulgarian leadership just didn't trust their men to fight the Soviets in the front line due to the aforementioned Russophilia.
As I told you before, there were no Bulgarian troops in the USSR and the Bulgarian army did not fight any Soviet units either there or anywhere else.
 
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