Vote for Best Timeline, Early 20th Century (1900-1932)

AWARD FOR BEST EARLY 20TH CENTURY TIMELINE (1900-1932)

  • Macsporan et al, "Fire Eagle, Snow Bear."

    Votes: 8 25.0%

  • Hendryk, "Superpower Empire: China."

    Votes: 6 18.8%

  • Diamond, "A Different Twentieth Century."

    Votes: 6 18.8%

  • JHPier, "No World War One Timeline."

    Votes: 3 9.4%

  • GBW, "Greater Mongolia Timeline."

    Votes: 6 18.8%

  • Syphon, "Aurora Australis."

    Votes: 3 9.4%
  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

GBW

Oh for the brief time early in the race when I was in the lead... :rolleyes: :D

Congratulations to Macsporan, and as for the three way tie for second place, I find myself in good company. :)
 

Macsporan

Banned
Aw Shucks fellas

Thank you all for this commendation.

The praise of the praiseworthy is beyond all reward.

As for "Fire Eagle" some day I'd like to finish it, give it a truely worthy ending.

What do you say?

Failing that I'd like to see more timelines here given novelistic treatment.

For Gridenko, for the Motherland!

Mac.
 

Max Sinister

Banned
Damn, now that's a surprise... you're back, and you'll continue "Fire Eagle..."? That's good.

Now I just hope the clash with our new users CalBear and EvolvedSaurian won't be too bad...
 

Macsporan

Banned
Call for volunteers

"Fire Eagle" was a team effort, but like me many of those people are no longer posting.

This need not stop us.

What is needed is for people to check out the archives of the old website and read the thread.

If anyone is interested in helping me finish it please say so here.

I'm game if you are.

Mac.
 

Macsporan

Banned
The Story so Far

For those of you unfamiliar with the epic it is all about the Germans not invading Beligium in 1914, Britain staying out and the Central Powers defeating France and Russia in 1916.

Twenty years later Russia, under a fascist government lead by the intensely charasmatic Vozhd Gridenko, launch another war to take back lost territory and reclaim national honour.

Here are some chapter headings of an AH book on the subject. We got as far as Chapter Four in detailed narrative. There is plenty left to do.

The Gridenko War

by The AH Writers Collective

Ballantine Military Series
(2003)

Table of Contents

Chapter 1: Portrait of a Tyrant
Russia is not mocked
Invincible to the Sunset
Are they all dead?
I will lead you now

Chapter 2: The Great Arming
Springtime in Armenia
These things will kill our foes
Generation of Sacrifice
They must leave our land or die
Only through war

Chapter 3: Byelorussian Interlude
Let no man set asunder
Signpost in the streets
Till the stars fall down

Chapter 4: Cloud over the Ukraine
I have come out of the East
A thousand years of vengeance
Kiev is all slaughter

Chapter 5: Austriae Delenda Est
We can hold them, can’t we?
Carpathian Twilight
The Gates of Heaven Closed
Warsaw is a suburb of Berlin

Chapter 6: Siberian Interlude
They cannot enter Russia
North of the Wall
Corpses on the Train-line

Chapter 7: Germany Strikes
Head in a noose of steel
Green Fields Beyond
You cannot imagine the carnage
Florence lies before us

Chapter 8: Fire Eagle verses Snow Bear
We can trade them lives and win
Blizzard of Tanks
This war will last forever

Chapter 9: How will it end?
His Majesty’s Government will not abide
Cut off from the Seas of Earth
If they invade us they will perish

Chapter 10: Cardboard Napoleon
There is no way through
Sky of White Flowers
Metz at Last
God for Harry England
Paris will be held to the end
Peace Train

Chapter 11: Hell is a place in Byelorussia
No one left to send
Journey to Golgotha
Flowers of the Forest

Chapter 12: Too Many Enemies
Winter in Armenia
End moves of the Great Game
The Last Janissary
We cannot fight them all

Chapter13: What is Peace?
Serpent as Hero
Death of a Patriot
Put our guns aside
Let Poland live
Blood will come from this
Imperial Nightfall

Chapter 14: Epilogue
The Fate of Statesmen
Vengeance is Mine
Ask among the Dead
 

Fearless Leader

Donor
Hey,

I was a big fan of the whole "Fire Eagle" timeline. I would be honored to participate in any effort to revive/continue it.

Where do I start?
 

Macsporan

Banned
Thank you Fearless Leader.

Perhaps others will follow you and we'll make progress.

Now, let me see.

I'd like to take out the Chinese Front from the narrative. I can't see it happening as niether side would have had any interest in it.

We can start with Chapter Five--The Austrian Front.

Chapter 1: Portrait of a Tyrant
Russia is not mocked
Invincible to the Sunset
Are they all dead?
I will lead you now

Chapter 2: The Great Arming
Springtime in Armenia
These things will kill our foes
Generation of Sacrifice
They must leave our land or die
Only through war

Chapter 3: Byelorussian Interlude
Let no man set asunder
Signpost in the streets
Till the stars fall down

Chapter 4: Cloud over the Ukraine
I have come out of the East
A thousand years of vengeance
Kiev is all slaughter

Chapter 5: Austriae Delenda Est
We can hold them, can’t we?
Carpathian Twilight
The Gates of Heaven Closed
Warsaw is a suburb of Berlin

Chapter 6: Germany Strikes
Head in a noose of steel
Green Fields Beyond
You cannot imagine the carnage
Florence lies before us

Chapter 7: Fire Eagle verses Snow Bear
We can trade them lives and win
Blizzard of Tanks
This war will last forever

Chapter 8: How will it end?
His Majesty’s Government will not abide
Cut off from the Seas of Earth
If they invade us they will perish

Chapter 9: Cardboard Napoleon
There is no way through
Sky of White Flowers
Metz at Last
God for Harry England
Paris will be held to the end
Peace Train

Chapter 10: Hell is a place in Byelorussia
No one left to send
Journey to Golgotha
Flowers of the Forest

Chapter 11: Too Many Enemies
Winter in Armenia
End moves of the Great Game
The Last Janissary
We cannot fight them all

Chapter12: What is Peace?
Serpent as Hero
Death of a Patriot
Blood will come from this
Imperial Nightfall

Chapter 13: Epilogue
The Fate of Statesmen
Vengeance is Mine
Ask among the Dead
 

Burton K Wheeler

Moderator
Just finished reading Fire Eagle, Snow Bear, and I have to say I'm very impressed. Easily the best timeline I've seen on this site, and that's saying a lot. Great cooperation between a lot of people who know a lot about their subject, and the "big ideas" fit perfectly with the level of *historical detail.
So now that I'm done gushing, Macsporan, I wholeheartedly second (or is it third?) the motion to continue the narrative. I'd even be willing to throw in what assistance I can offer, though modern althistory isn't my thing (too many pesky facts get in the way of my speculating).
 

Macsporan

Banned
The Triumph of the Snow Bear

That makes three of us and I'm sure that others will join in.

The things that made FE/SB so good was the co-operative effort and the novelistic approach. It was a work of art and intended to be such.

A couple of reflections on the timeline; I think I was mistaken in imagining a military stalemate leading to the overthrow of Gridenko and a compromise peace:

1) In the end the Russians will win. Although Germany/Austria have more industry, Russia has more men by a ratio approaching two to one once Belorussia and the Ukraine are in the bag. The Russians will prevail in a war of attrition unless every other major power (including the US) joins forces against them, and even then they will force their enemies to a draw. Not only that they have France and possibly Italy as an ally. This monstrous Russian Front will eventually devour all who stand against it. Not only that because they have the most advanced weoponry, tactics and capable military/political leadership they will at no stage suffer the horendous defeats suffered by the USSR in our timeline early in the war.

2) Austria will be a broken reed, undermined by Russian political warfare and not capable of mobilising its feeble resources to great effectiveness.

3) Gridenko will ensure that the British will stay out. The US will stay out too. There is nothing in this for them.

4) I can't see a Chinese front happening. Gridenko will take pains to avoid it.

5) Within three years at the very outside Gridenko will dictate peace in the ruins of Berlin. Germany will be stripped of all territories over which the Slavs have any claims, however far-fetched, disarmed and reduced to economic and political vassalage.

6) The Ukraine, Belorussia and the Baltic States will restored to the bosom of Mother Russia; Austria will be destroyed and the Slavic people's of Eastern Europe will be the willing clients of he who is greater than any since Ghengis Khan, wiser than Peter the Great: the Rodina-Liberator, the Saviour, the God-Sent Redeemer, the Slav-Messiah of the Third Rome: Vozhd Alexi Gridenko, the Blessed, the Beloved of the Lord.

7) Within ten years of peace the Russians will explode the world's first nuclear device.

What do you think?
 

Fearless Leader

Donor
Personally Macsporan, I don't exactly share your views on the outcome of the timeline.

From what I've read the Russians are (slowly) running out of steam. The Austrians have thrown them back in the Balkans and are beginning to reform their armed forces at a rapid rate. Meanwhile the Germans are causing a mess in Byelorussia.

I also find that the airwar has been severely neglected. It's established that the Germans have the superior airforce so I don't doubt that they'll have air superiority especially as the war crawls closer to Berlin. Also don't forget that the Central Powers are rapidly developing Personal Anti-tank rockets which will put a major dent in any Ratobor military division.

Also I'm skeptical about the value of the Baltic States, the Ukraine and Byelorussia to the Russian war effort. IIRC the Ukraine will take at least a couple years for the Russians to get everything back on line. Same with Byelorussia and the Baltics. Also remember that theres going to be atleast some armed resistance to the Russians in their occupied territories. Not on the scale of what existed on OTL's eastern front but some nonetheless.

Britain's involvement is debatable. If the Franco-Russian alliance wins, Europw will be dominated by two fairly anti-British powers and Britain won't like it. Britain also won't like the fact that Russia's dominating the Balkans and threatening their interests there. I think some kind of incident ala the Luisitania will give Britain the imputus to enter the war on the side of Germany and A-H.

I also think the Gridenko character is too good. Nobody in history was that good. Everybody has flaws, even Gridenko...History isn't made up of 2 dimensional characters it's made up of 3 dimensional ones, ones that have problems and difficulties which they either overcome or result in their downfall. Perhaps Gridenko's ego gets to his head and he begins to try and micromanage the war like Hitler did in OTL....

I think that the Russian steamroller will begin to slow down as they reach Austria proper and start to drive into Poland and the Czech republic. Vienna will become the defining battle of a people as the Austrians rally and defeat the Russians in a Stalingrad-esque battle. Meanwhile Germany will have not only learned from it's mistakes but also gained the army to utilize it. They'll launch a vicious counterattack against the Russians and start to drive the
Russians back from the gates of Berlin.

Meanwhile in Russia, Gridenko is going to be deposed by political unrest within his own cabinet resulting in somekind of compromise peace wherein the Baltics, Byelorussia, and the Ukraine are restored to Russia in exchange for Russia withdrawing from Europe proper.

Anyhow just my two cents.
 

Macsporan

Banned
Thanks for your response and your interest.

What I am saying is that having examined the situation I believe that the strategic balance favoured Russia far more than we allowed in the timeline.

With a Russian industrial production index of 220 and a German one of 250 before Gridenko siezes the Ukraine the two contenders would have been just about equal by the time the main conflict began.

That is where Russia's manpower advantage comes in. By 1940 Gridenko has achieved the frontiers of the OTL USSR and there have, mark you, been no Stalinist purges or Collectivisation to lop tens of millions off the population, so we are looking at a population of nearly 200 million. Germany would be lucky to get about 80 million with all those brave German souls who settled in the Ukraine now on the wrong side of the line.

Austria, depite the political blood transfusion given by the competent and energetic Emperor Karl, is in a bad way, infiltrated and subverted by Nafobor spies, terrorists and agents. Once war breaks out we can expect a guerillia insurection, carefully planned and orchestrated from Moscow, to break out in the Balkans, the Carpathians and anywhere else where Slavs are thick on the ground and the terrain suitable.

Nor will Austrian Slavic conscripts be willing to lay down their lives for their German overlords. Their formations will be curdled with desertion, fight without enthusiasm, surrender en mass at the drop of a helmet. Austria will be punching well below its weight.

Given this situation the Fire Eagle is like the Southern Confederacy fighting the Snow Bear Yankee north; no matter how brave the troops or how brilliant their commanders they cannot prevail against their enemy's gritty determination and almost inexhaustable capacity to replace their losses. :eek:

Also the Russian Army in OTL will be much more technically competent than Stalin's and will not have its leadership decimated by purges or catastrophic initial defeats.

With the French in on the act and Germany involved in a two front war, possibly a three front war if the Italians can be lured into this slaughter.

It can only end one way, unless someone invents nuclear weapons or practically the whole industrialised world comes in against Russia, both of which are extremely unlikely.

This is how it seems to me anyhow.

Cheers,

Mac.:)
 
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