Von Spee had only light cruisers

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_von_Spee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_East_Asia_Squadron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Emden_(1908)
I'm currently reading "Castles of Steel" which is about the naval war in WW1 and have reached the section about von Spee's voyage. The author posits that had the East Asia squadron been composed of 9 light cruisers instead of 3 light and 2 armored cruisers, that von Spee could have broken up his fleet into individual commerce raiders and terrorized the whole Pacific and Indian ocean, in effect having 9 Emdens sailing around and creating havoc. Obviously not all could have been as successful as the Emden, but what could have been achieved had 9 German light cruisers been pirating the waters of the Pacific?
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_von_Spee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_East_Asia_Squadron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Emden_(1908)
I'm currently reading "Castles of Steel" which is about the naval war in WW1 and have reached the section about von Spee's voyage. The author posits that had the East Asia squadron been composed of 9 light cruisers instead of 3 light and 2 armored cruisers, that von Spee could have broken up his fleet into individual commerce raiders and terrorized the whole Pacific and Indian ocean, in effect having 9 Emdens sailing around and creating havoc. Obviously not all could have been as successful as the Emden, but what could have been achieved had 9 German light cruisers been pirating the waters of the Pacific?

They cause more havoc for a while but by mid 1915 they would all be sunk or trapped in a harbour.

Being on the high seas without a major port to go for maintenance would take its toll too. OTL Von Spees ships could no longer go full speed because they required a refit.
 

Deleted member 1487

They cause more havoc for a while but by mid 1915 they would all be sunk or trapped in a harbour.

Being on the high seas without a major port to go for maintenance would take its toll too. OTL Von Spees ships could no longer go full speed because they required a refit.

But how much damage and what would the effect be on the British war effort?
Obviously 9 light ships without a friendly port are doomed eventually, but the goal would be to cause damage and shut down shipping until they are run to ground. Can they pull away significant parts of the Grand Fleet?
 

BlondieBC

Banned
The answer is untold chaos for the first 2-6 months of the war. It is not the actual amount of ships sunk by the ships, it is the logistical issues. When the Edmund was near Madras, ships did not leave port for 8 days or so, then once more British cruisers were in the area, they started to trickle out. Reductions in traffic for a region of ports could be 70%+ for days and 33%+ for months. But over time, the British would kill them or they would be trapped in a neutral port. They ammo was more of a limit than fuel, because they often looted coal from ships they sunk.

I would think it would be 9 independent ships, not groups of three. My guess of battle stations.

1) Eastern India
2) Western India
3) Near Hong Kong
4) West Coast USA
5) Cape Town
6) Very brief visits to mouth of Red Sea.
7) Dutch East Indies.
8) Nitrates from Chile

A ballpark guess is that in the first 120 days of war, that the UK loses 30 to 40 days worth of ships arriving. The goods are not destroyed, just piling up in harbors. The Indian corps don't get to France til late Winter, and Anzac does not get to Egypt for a couple extra months. Food rationing is imposed by end of September, and luxury goods disappear from stores. I have not yet found a critical item that kills the British war effort, but my guess is that the front near the channel is at least 10 miles farther west. Large rubber and tin shortage too, tin is by far the worst. Also, a lot of the food shortages will be in places like China and India, because the UK will prioritize war goods, and screw the China and Dutch East Indies.


Other possible items;

1) Ottomans enter war few weeks earlier.
2) Ottoman attack on Sinai might work better.
3) Might delay Italy into war, they will likely wait to see British fix merchant issues before entering, so guess, Italy joins in June.
4) Bulgaria comes earlier, especially in Ottomans do too.
5) Good chance of cancel British and French offenses in the November 1914 to April 1915 time frame.

Not a war winner on its own, unless it leads to bad secondary effect. The closest I can see is with less pressure in France, the Eastern Campaign goes a lot faster, especially if Italy is a few months late joining the war.


I am doing a logistical war time line, Prince Henry, that will give what I think a real commerce war does to the UK. It will be a few more posts before i get to land butterflies.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=225455
 
Zero effect on the Grand Fleet but the ANZAC troop convoy can set off without fear of a pair or armored cruisers lurking somewhere nor having to wait for an IJN escort which can deal with such a risk.
 
Wouldn't the home fleet just detach a battlecruiser group or two to hunt them down and destroy them?

where are these cruisers going to coal from?
 
The British, French, Australians, New Zealanders, Japanese and Russians had ships in the area already so there would be no need, in theory, for any more to be sent out.
 
Wouldn't the home fleet just detach a battlecruiser group or two to hunt them down and destroy them?

where are these cruisers going to coal from?

From prizes taken at sea, SMS Emden, did this repeatedly. Eastern Pacific other than British Columbia is wide open to recoal at. Western pacific is limited to Philippines and East Indies. Can only revisit nation in question once every 90 days.

SMS Emden also ran very short of coal several times.

Only question of time before they are run down and caught but they could do a lot of damage. To be honest Von Spee did about the best job he could with the hand he was dealt.

Michael
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Wouldn't the home fleet just detach a battlecruiser group or two to hunt them down and destroy them?

where are these cruisers going to coal from?

Yes, the British would like detach the fast BC and a squadron of faster regular cruisers. The coal for raiders comes from a couple of places. When they catch a coal powered ship without wireless, they simply take all the coal from the target ship before sinking it. The Germans were also use German colliers to resupply the warships and merchant raiders. Eventually, even if not destroyed in battle the CL would be forced to a neutral port, and they would cause havoc in British logistics. My guess is that all 9 CL are out of action by January 1915.

The British, French, Australians, New Zealanders, Japanese and Russians had ships in the area already so there would be no need, in theory, for any more to be sent out.

Not correct. The Japanese did not enter the war til the 23rd of August and they were busy grabbing land, so were the Australians. The British had less than 6 cruisers, 1 pre-dread, and 8 destroyers to deal with the issues in the Pacific and Dutch East Indies. They had 60 ships or so in the Indian Ocean, but less than 8 first rate ships. Most of the ships were too light, too slow or too short range to deal with modern CL.
 
Not correct. The Japanese did not enter the war til the 23rd of August and they were busy grabbing land, so were the Australians. The British had less than 6 cruisers, 1 pre-dread, and 8 destroyers to deal with the issues in the Pacific and Dutch East Indies. They had 60 ships or so in the Indian Ocean, but less than 8 first rate ships. Most of the ships were too light, too slow or too short range to deal with modern CL.

Von Spee's AC's would have been able to take apart any RN cruiser in the area outside of HMAS Australia. An interesting idea is if Spee's squadron runs into HMAS Australia and Sydney. I really don't think the Australians want to try to engage Von Spee squadron. Yah Australia smashes Spee into scrap metal but he has more ships and his 210mm guns are a threat to Australia's armor.

Michael
 
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